1991

*TC*, Genre, Satire

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 2, No. 149. Friday, 31 May 1991.
 
(1)	Date: 	Thu, 30 May 1991 21:57:49 -0400
	From: 	Roy Flannagan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Thersites in the (south?) Bronx
 
(2)	Date: 	Thu, 30 May 1991 23:37:04 -0400
	From: 	Steve Urkowitz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
(3)	Date: 	Fri, 31 May 1991 00:17:12 -0400
	From: 	Steve Urkowitz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
(4)	Date: 	Fri, 31 May 1991 03:38:00 -0400
	From: 	"George Mosley" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 		Thu, 30 May 1991 21:57:49 -0400
From: 		Roy Flannagan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 	Thersites in the (south?) Bronx
 
Steve: We've got to call the play *something*, and I guess your favorite
word is satire?  The genre confusion is worth more than a chuckle,
because to me it looks as if Shakespeare is throwing a screwyou to
conventions of plot, character, national ideals, patriotism, politics,
as well as genre.  Thersites is like a crack-dealer in a street-war
because he is nihilistic, not necessarily because he satirizes
something.  What is there left in the play to satirize, what is left
un-made-fun-of?  And is it fun that is made of it, or is the play
designed to be unfunny satire?  Thesites is still deflating at full
steam at his parting from the play, and Pandarus, apparently dying,
leaves us only his diseases.
 
Also, the play doesn't work very well as a drama until the voyeur scene
with Troilus and Ulysses peeking at Cressida and Diomedes while
Thersites peeps at them.  Only then did my bright class perk up and take
interest.  Before then, the play does not work all that well as drama.
Even the production I saw in Stratford (Ontario) several years ago, with
Patroclus in a bikini, Ajax in a jakes, English colonials playing Greeks
and Indians of the Raj playing Troyans, plus Myrmidons as Hell's Angels,
could excite the audience for much of the play.  Where is the play
getting its satiric energy, Steve?  And how are you making it work on
stage?
						Roy Flannagan
 
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 		Thu, 30 May 1991 23:37:04 -0400
From: 		Steve Urkowitz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
Comment:      	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
Hmmm.  Satire and the specificities of the objects satirized . . . Sure,
it is wonderful to be able to recognize who may be targeted, but after a
while does it really matter that the Dowager Duchess of Upswitch really
had buck teeth if one really wants to laugh at the satiric literary event?
Pope switched dunces from Dunciad Mark I to Dunciad Mark II.  And the
weird jugglings of Hot Potato Oldcastle makes one wonder if he's any
funnier under that name than under the Falstaff escutcheon (I wonder
what will happen when the OUP name-change gets tried out onstage or in
a classroom).  Insider jokes with only local recognition may or may not
still be funny to outsiders a few weeks or centuries later, but happily
a lot of the venomous bite that we pour into our satires turns into more
innocent nibbles and laughter.  I guess I should explain that I first
learned to read Juvenal and Swift from John R. Clark (see his -Form and
Frenzy in Tale of a Tub-), and then was deeply discouraged from going on
in the field when I met up with Ned Rosenheim as my next guide through
its explosive possibilities.
 
Query: Does anyone else see a connection, an imitation of form, between
Astrophil and Stella, that train-wreck of a love affair, and Troilus and
Cressida?  "And they lived happily never after."   How much does it help
and how much does it destroy our sense of the literary plot of the sonnet
sequence when we trace the world of Penelope Rich and bright Sir Philip?
I guess we are best off seeing history and literary invention inextricable,
like ourselves, and fashioned.
 
       Cordially, at the end of a torrid May, Steve Urkowitz (SURCC@CUNYVM)
 
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 		Fri, 31 May 1991 00:17:12 -0400
From: 		Steve Urkowitz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
Comment:      	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
Dear Kay Stockholder,
 
      I guess I begin drifting as soon as I hear that "by definition"
satire refers to a world outside itself.  I think, "So then does tragedy,
or even farce," and I grow all fuzzy now so late at night.  Here's a case:
I imagine that one of the antecedents of Troilus and Cressida is _Astrophil
and Stella_. They both plot the disastrous trainwrecks of idealized
fetishistic romance.  Now, we have all that juicy reference in A&S to
the world beyond.  Penelope Rich's itches, Sir Philip's frenzies.  But
Astrophil's fiction lives independent of Sir Phil's.  And the reference,
I think, that we should be getting is not to the biography of that courtier
but rather to the fate of fetishized amor, a human disaster that struck
Homer's suitors of his Penelope as well as Sir P's Astrophil.  I would
suggest that there are dimensions of specific invective chopping at Joe
Blow's wickedness AND formal literary shapes (as Northrop Frye, he should
rest in peace, showed us).  We can laugh along either of these dimensions,
or both.  But if we look only at the invective and its targets, most satire
just ain't gonna be very funny, like old news.  Doesn't _Dr.Strangelove_
still work even for viewers who don't know the political references of the
period?  Does T&C work with people who never watched the newsreels of the
latest skirmishes at Troy?
 
Oooh, it's getting later, the night is hot, fuzz grows apace.
 
						Warmly,
 
						Steve Urkowitz
						<SURCC@CUNYVM>
						
(4) --------------------------------------------------------------------
						
Date: 		Fri, 31 May 1991 03:38:00 -0400
From: 		"George Mosley" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
Comment: 	Re: SHK 2.0147  Troilus & Cressida, Genre
 
Regarding satiric reference:
 
Satire, particularly parodic satire, presents trouble because it so
intimately involves questions of intentionality.  To label a thing
"satiric" or "parodic" instead of "failed" implies a knowledge of what
the author meant to say.  Thus, in post-structuralist terms the work
seems to be contradictory on purpose, to repeat what it condemns.
For the old New Critics, the matter of authorial intent drives them
crazy.  For many of the naive reader-response critics, the presence of
unsophisticated readers who are "fooled" by the satire presents trouble.
 
Not only is reference unstable, satire always involves a community
of "right" opinions which can operate in opposition to the text.  This,
at any rate, is what I've observed in critics trying to cope with
"problem" satire (in Booth's term, 'unstable irony').
 
						George Mosley
						<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

Internet Library Catalogues

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 2, No. 148. Thursday, 30 May 1991.
 
(1)	Date:  	Thu, 30 May 91 16:23:29 EDT
	From: 	Nicholas Ranson <R1NR%This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj:   Re: SHK 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
 
(2)	Date: 	Wed, 29 May 1991 20:34 CST
	From: 	Peter Scott <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
 
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date:         	Thu, 30 May 91 16:23:29 EDT
From: 		Nicholas Ranson <R1NR%This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
Comment:      	Re: SHK 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
 
	[This note appears to have arrived damaged, but its intent
	seems clear.  --k.s.]
 
I would very much like to have Ann Miller's offer of further methods of
accessing libraries by remote means taken up by SHAKSPER; if not, I for
one would like [...]
 
						[Nick] Ranson.
 
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------------
						
Date: 		Wed, 29 May 1991 20:34 CST
From: 		Peter Scott
		Order Unit Manager, U of Saskatchewan Library
		<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
Comment: 	Re: SHK 2.0145  Accessing Cambridge via Internet
 
	[Lengthy quotation of Ann Miller's recent posting has been
	omitted.  -- k.s.]
 
[...]
	
You may be interested in a pop-up memory-resident program I have
compiled, called HYTELNET, which gives you access to ALL currently
known Internet-accessible library catalogs. It also has listings
for campus-wide information systems, FreeNets, Library BBSs etc.
 
You load HYTELNET before running your IBM communications program,
then invoke it with the Control and Backspace keys. Use the arrow
keys to move through the hypertext screens. Scroll with the plus
and minus keys. Escape puts it back into memory, control-backspace
brings it up again. The utility is very easy to use and the
information files (in pure ASCII) are easily edited.
 
If you want details on how to obtain the utility...it's free...
then just send me an e-mail message.
 
Regards,
 
   ...................................................................
                       Peter Scott  .  Phone:    306-966-6016
                Order Unit Manager  .  FAX:      306-966-6040
    Univ of Saskatchewan Libraries  .  This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
     Saskatoon,Sask,Canada,S7N OWO  .  Internet: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Genre and *TC*

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 2, No. 146. Wednesday, 29 May 1991.
 
Date: 		Tue, 28 May 1991 20:18:40 -0400
From: 		Steve Urkowitz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0141  N&Q: *TC* & Genre
Comment:      	Re: SHK 2.0141  N&Q: *TC* & Genre
 
On the genre of T&C:  I have several times begun a semester-course with
this play, and with some irreverently appropriate glee point to Virgil
Whittaker's introductory remark, " . . . the play is a unique combination
of learned subject matter, all-inclusive satire, and something close to
smut; and it is neither comedy nor tragedy -- nor, in fact, well-constructed
drama."  Ah, the majestic condescension of homo criticus towards the lower
orders.  Maybe in the bronx satire was a lot closer to the bone, 'cause
we were accustomed to laughing ourselves black and blue.  The resistance
of theorists to satire and satire to theory leaves many of the tragedy/comedy
dichotomists gasping for breath as they try to scale this play.  It's a
problem play only for the folks who find satire's bite a problem.  Some
may be alarmed by the quarto-folio shift in the Title of KING LEAR from
the TRUE CHRONICLE HISTORIE . . . to the Tragedie.  While Gary Taylor
and Stanley Wells chew their way through that problem, I find it fun to
watch and to laugh.  Thersites grew up in my neighborhood.
 
					Yours ever,
					
                                            Steve Urkowitz
                                            SURCC@CUNYVM

Troilus & Cressida, Genre

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 2, No. 147. Thursday, 30 May 1991.
 
(1)	Date: 	Thu, 30 May 1991 01:26:00 -0400
	From: 	"George Mosley" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 2.0146  Genre and *TC*
 
(2)	Date: 	Thu, 30 May 91 09:37:54 PDT
	From: 	Kay Stockholder <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
	Subj: 	SHK 2.0146  Genre and *TC*
 
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 		Thu, 30 May 1991 01:26:00 -0400
From: 		"George Mosley" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: 2.0146  Genre and *TC*
Comment: 	Re: SHK 2.0146  Genre and *TC*
 
I've been relatively amused by the trouble some have with amusement
as well.  Frank Palmeri, in an article on Swift's *A Tale of a Tub,*
mentions that that work is, like T&C, only properly called
"narrative satire," where (rough quote) the hero neither learns
anything nor dies and Pandarus bequeaths his diseases onto the
audience applauding him.
 
I've been working on working on parody for my dissertation, and
except for Joseph A. Dane, there hasn't been a single book on
parody in English since the 1930s.  In general, you seem correct in
saying that critics in general have a hard time with satire.  There
is no way, it seems, to reduce the wonders of humor to a system,
and without a system, system-makers seem lost.
 
It would be interesting to see what Pope and Theobald make of
T&C, since they edited Shakespeare in an age overrun with satire.
 
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: 		Thu, 30 May 91 09:37:54 PDT
From: 		This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Genre and *TC*
Comment: 	SHK 2.0146  Genre and *TC*
 
Dear Steve,  Why do you think satire is more difficult to theorize
than comedy and tragedy?  Is it because satire by definition
refers to the world beyond itself?  If yes, then any discussion
of theme in any genre also presupposes reference to a world
beyond itself.  If one is predisposed to deny that what appears
as thematic reference is really so I don't see any greater
difficulty in denying that what appears as satiric reference
is really so, rather than a trope to engage readers in a
certain way.  However, you may have something altogether
different in mind.
				Yours,
 
				Kay Stockholder
				[This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]

Accessing Cambridge via Internet

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 2, No. 145. Wednesday, 29 May 1991.
 
Date: 		Tue, 28 May 1991 10:03:00 -0400
From: 		Ann Miller <FAC_AMILLER@JMUVAX>
Subject:  	Accessing Cambridge U. library
 
Last week Mr. Ranson asked how to access Cambridge University's online
catalog.  I am sending the instructions along.  You must use INTERNET
to access the library.  If your computer only has BITNET access this
won't work.
 
A couple of things to remember: 1) it is polite to use other people's
computers during their off hours, this won't be a problem with
Cambridge; 2) remember that online catalogs, generally, have
relatively contemporary publications, special collections and archival
materials are usually not included.
 
If you are accessing via a PC and communications program be sure that
you are set up to emulate a VT100 environment.  This is the most
common environment when accessing library catalogs.
 
 
                   Cambridge University
 
Location: Cambridge UK
 
To access:
 
1.   Type [at your mainframe's main prompt] TELNET SUN.NSF.AC.UK
2.   At the login prompt, type janet
3.   At the hostname prompt, enter uk.ac.cam.ul
4.   Enter Y.
 
To exit, type END.
 
The Cambridge software is different and takes a bit of getting used
to.  Plan some play time so as to get used to the system.
 
If SHAKSPEReans wish I would be happy to put together something to
post on accessing other libraries as well.  There are a many libraries
out there which allow remote access.  I have been working on a
workshop for faculty here and could send what I have along.  Any
takers?
 
Ann Miller
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA  22807
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
INTERNET: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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