1995

RFD: Newsgroup

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 6, No. 0465.  Friday, 9 June 1995.
 
From:           Marty Hyatt <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 20:18:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:        2nd RFD: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
 
                     REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
         unmoderated group humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
 
        Summary:  Poetry, plays, history of Shakespeare
    Proposed by:  Marty Hyatt <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
 
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) on the subject of creating
an unmoderated Usenet newsgroup:
 
            humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
 
This message initiates a discussion period to consider the creation of a
humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare newsgroup.  Discussion will take place
on news.groups.  All follow-up posts on Usenet should be made to
news.groups.
 
This is the second RFD for this group.  The first RFD used the name,
humanities.literature.english.shakespeare.  As a result of the first
discussion (see Rationale below), the name has been changed to
humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare and another discussion period (of at
least seven days) is required due to the name change.
 
RATIONALE
 
Shakespeare has been discussed frequently in rec.arts.theatre.plays and
occasionally in rec.arts.books.  There is also a moderated listserv list,
SHAKSPER, devoted to Shakespeare.  But there is no Usenet newsgroup
specifically for the discussion of Shakespeare and his contemporaries.
The new group humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare will be unmoderated.
There are no plans to gate the new group to the listserv list.
 
The creation of humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare will initiate a
humanities.lit.* hierarchy (lit = literature).  During the first
discussion period, ".lit." was favored over ".literature." for the second
level of the name (by 48:17 in a straw poll).  The creation of this group
will also establish humanities.lit.authors.* as a possible location for
other single-author newsgroups.  During the discussion period, ".authors."
was favored over ".english." for the third level of the name because this
is likely to prevent arguments over the names of future single-author
newsgroups.  Although ".english." seems a good fit for Shakespeare, other
authors are not so easy to categorize.  A straw poll favored ".authors."
over ".english." for the third level of the name by a vote of 44:4.  The
creation of humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare will not preclude future
division of the humanities.lit.* hierarchy by language or other subjects
as will be determined by future newsgroup votes (e.g. it is possible that
humanities.lit.english.misc will be created some day).
 
During the first discussion period, few or no objections were raised to
the Charter itself.  Discussion focused on what to use for the name of the
new group.
 
CHARTER
 
The unmoderated newsgroup humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare will be for
discussion of:
 
1> the plays and poems of William Shakespeare and other English writers of
   the 16th and 17th centuries.
2> the life and times of Shakespeare and his contemporaries.
3> the production, staging, and acting of Shakespeare's plays, including
   current and past productions.
4> Shakespeare's influence and impact on subsequent literature and
   culture.
5> Shakespeare's authorship including his sources, allusions in his works,
   publication of his works, possible collaborations, and possible
   pseudonymity.
 
NOTE THE FOLLOWING
 
This is NOT a call for votes.  A Call For Votes (CFV) will be posted after
a discussion period of at least 7 days and will be conducted by an
independent third party.
 
This RFD is being cross-posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,
humanities.misc, rec.arts.books, and rec.arts.theatre.plays.  It is also
being posted to the listserv list, shaksper@utoronto.  Followups on Usenet
should be made to news.groups.
--
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Marty Hyatt <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Re: Discovering Ham; Miss-Begetting; RSC Peer Gynt

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 6, No. 0464.  Friday, 9 June 1995.
 
(1)     From:   Edna Boris <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 95 11:41:10 EDT
        Subj:   Discovering Hamlet
 
(2)     From:   Gayle Gaskill <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 11:53:51 -0500 (CDT)
        Subj:   Miss-Begetting
 
(3)     From:   Joanne Walen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 22:14:52 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0454 Re: Peer Gynt, etc.
 
 
(1)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Edna Boris <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 95 11:41:10 EDT
Subject:        Discovering Hamlet
 
If the video called "Discovering Hamlet" has been discussed in this forum, I
missed seeing the discussion, but the tape is so well done that I'd like to
make sure that people know about it.  It's 53 minutes long, so manageable to
show during one class period and shows Derek Jacobi in his first directing
experience with Kenneth Branagh as Hamlet in a Birmingham production.  Though
no one will agree with all the decisions and choices that they make, the
director and actors' reasoning for key choices is explained and we get to see
the process by which a performance is readied from earliest rehersals to
opening night.  It is effective in its own right and as a spark for all kinds
of classroom discussion.  The box lists it as distributed by PBS Video with a
1991 copyright, Unicorn Projects in Washington, D.C.
 
(2)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Gayle Gaskill <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 11:53:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:        Miss-Begetting
 
The Miss-Begetting discussion, with its equation of sexual vigor to the
production of the y-chromosome, may provide a reading of Macbeth's demand or
request, "Bring forth Men-children onely" (1.7.72).
 
Let me ask someone who cited Edmund's defense of bastards to explain the
legality of legitimacy in Shakespeare' England. Edmund asserts he is "some
twelve or fourteen  moonshines / Lag of a brother" (1.2.5-6), and Gloucester
has confessed "there was good sport at his making, and the whoreson must be
acknowledged" (1.1.23-24).  Is Edmund the older or the younger brother of the
legitimate Edgar?  If he is younger, then twelve or fourteen moonshines--though
they would deprive him of inheriting his father's title--would not in
themselves make him a whoreson.  Are we to assume the sons had the same
mother--in other words, that subsequent marriage would not legitimize a child
already born to a couple?  That would give legal significance to the "twelve or
fourteen moonshines lag" but give "whoreson" a peculiarly misogynistic reading,
especially in this motherless play.  Or are we to guess that Gloucester, who
introduces his adult bastard son to his old acquaintance, Kent, has only
recently discovered that Edmund exists?  Who can explain this point of law?
 
(3)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Joanne Walen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 22:14:52 -0400
Subject: 6.0454 Re: Peer Gynt, etc.
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0454 Re: Peer Gynt, etc.
 
According to my summer schedule for RSC, *Peer Gynt* previews at the Young Vic
in London from 30 August, closes on 14 October. And I quite agree with your
opinion that Alex Jenning's performance was amazing. The *Henry V* of Iain Glen
is also not to be missed; it previews at the Barbican from 31 August, closing
on 16 November. I base these opinions on the performances I saw last summer in
Stratford, but I suspect that they have strengthened rather than suffered by
the move to London.

Re: William Shakesbear

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 6, No. 0461.  Friday, 9 June 1995.
 
(1)     From:   Jung Jimmy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 95 11:09:00 PDT
        Subj:   another bear message
 
(2)     From:   Terry Craig <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 1995 12:41:51 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   More on the Bear
 
(3)     From:   Fran Teague <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 95 13:42:07 EDT
        Subj:   Many thanks
 
 
(1)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Jung Jimmy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 95 11:09:00 PDT
Subject:        another bear message
 
Hardy, I forgot you were in Maryland.
 
There is a bear store in Fells Point, Baltimore, where they carry the line of
bears you speak of, and perhaps old willy shaksbear himself. Unfortunately, I
don't remember the name of the store, but its next to the bar, Leadbetters,
perhaps they can give you the name; its across the street from The Horse You
Came In On.  Sorry all my fells point geography is based on the locations of
bars.  The owner is a little out there, and seems to have a conversational
relationship with much of her merchandise, but she probably can help, if not
sell you one.
 
jimmy
 
(2)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Terry Craig <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 1995 12:41:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:        More on the Bear
 
Fran and Hardy--
 
I visited a store caled Bear Tracks this morning. They carry the line (VIB)
from which Shakesbear was retired, but they have no more Wills. The woman there
did, however, show me a magazine called *Teddy Bear and Friends* which covers
everything from Teddy Artists to Teddy Bear Jamborees. There are also lots of
ads about bears for sale from stores and from individuals. I have no idea what
the prices would be, but I thought I'd send along some of the possibles. If
either of you would like a closer at the magazine, I'll be happy to send it
snail mail.
 
Here are some stores that mention VIBs specifically:
 
     Bears by the Sea  (805)-773-1952
     Teddy Bear Junction  (804)-564-7623
     The Bear Tree (714)-527-1411
     Shirley's Dollhouse  (708)-537-1632  ("Largest inventory of old VIBs")
 
There are quite a few personal or small-store ads offering VIBs for sale,
some mentioning rather ominously "best offer." Two mention Shakesbear
himself:
 
     Urbanski Bears  (312)-831-2769
     Holly  (307)-745-8481
 
Three sources offer retired VIBs:
 
     Teddy Bear Country  (817)-624-7007
     Unnamed  (718)-761-8147
     Second Childhood  (717)-875-2851
 
Hope this helps. Again, if you'd like to see the magazine, I'll be glad to send
it.
 
Terry
 
(3)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Fran Teague <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 95 13:42:07 EDT
Subject:        Many thanks
 
Just wanted to let you know that I'll probably have a bear made or else
surrender my attempt a whimsey and settle for giving a bottle of Scotch as a
graduation gift.
 
I have found all the lore about bears quite charming and all the enthusiastic
help quite touching. Thank you so much for making this sort of inquiry
possible. It's really brightened my June knowing that so many folks are willing
to help out!
 
Fran T.

Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 6, No. 0463.  Friday, 9 June 1995.
 
(1)     From:   James Schaefer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 1995 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0458  Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing
 
(2)     From:   Michael Swanson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 11:33:10 -0400
        Subj:   Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing
 
(3)     From:   Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 9 Jun 1995 10:02:10 -0700
        Subj:   Early directors
 
 
(1)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           James Schaefer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 1995 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 6.0458  Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0458  Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing
 
Hold the mirror up to nature, yes; but Polonius's best advice, to actors and
all, is: "By indirections find direction out."
 
Jim Schaefer
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(2)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Swanson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 11:33:10 -0400
Subject:        Re: Elizabethan Directors and Directing
 
While I agree with Chris Bergstrasser's comment that Hamlet's advice to the
players needs to be considered in light of that character's situation and his
objectives for staging "The Mouse-Trap,"  I would also submit that the very
fact that Hamlet gives advice at all suggests that there was some practice of
giving such advice -- whether as acting coaching or as directing -- in the
Elizabethan theatre.  Had no one done it before Hamlet, it would seem to be
difficult, if not impossible, for Hamlet to do it.
 
(3)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 9 Jun 1995 10:02:10 -0700
Subject:        Early directors
 
Two thoughts on directors in early drama.
 
Chris Bergstresser is surely right to question Hamlet's speeches on acting as
somehow expressing a norm for the period, or even Shakespeare's attitude to the
best acting style. It is true that the actors and their play come in for a bit
of gentle satire (the old-fashioned diction of Gonzago's Revenge is a good
pointer), but it is also true that Hamlet, university student, has less than
Shakespearean taste in literature -- witness his admiration for the turgid
Senecanism of the Pyrrus speech. The Parnassus plays remind us that university
taste was not that of the authors for the general stage, and it is certainly
possible that Shakespeare's taste(s) in acting styles were somewhere between
Hamlet's and the Player King's.
 
In a different direction on directors, is there a parallel between directors in
acting companies and conductors in orchestras? The conductor arrived at the end
of the eighteenth / beginning of the nineteenth century when orchestras got
bigger and the music more complex -- before then performances were usually led
by the harpsichordist or organist providing the continuo, the principle
violinist, or the soloist (the film Amadeus is cheerfully anachronistic on this
in all but one scene where Mozart is shown conducting from the piano).
 
It's all mixed up no doubt with the shift in perception of the individual and
the group that we usually blame on the romantics?

Re: American and British Humor

Shakespeare Electronic Conference, Vol. 6, No. 0460.  Friday, 9 June 1995.
 
(1)     From:   Pam Powell <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 16:52:14 GMT +2:00
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
 
(2)     From:   Robert C. Evans <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 10:11:39 -0500 (CDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0453 Re: American and British Humor
 
(3)     From:   David Jackson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 08 Jun 95 12:34:35 est
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
 
(4)     From:   An Sonjae <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 9 Jun 1995 09:23:36 +0900 (KST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 6.0457 Re: American and British Humor; Miss-Begetting
 
 
(1)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Pam Powell <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 16:52:14 GMT +2:00
Subject: 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
 
Here! Here! Benny Hill is not British humour in my opinion.
 
Pam Powell
South Africa (but British)
 
(2)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robert C. Evans <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 8 Jun 1995 10:11:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: 6.0453 Re: American and British Humor
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0453 Re: American and British Humor
 
Dear Colleagues:
 
I will soon be teaching a course in humor and satire and wondered if any of you
had any suggestions about readings to include.  To narrow the question a bit, I
am specifically interested in non-dramatic works (especially poems and short
stories) that will really excite genuine laughter but that also have literary
merit.  Please don't hesitate to mention titles that may seem obvious to you.
Right now I am planning to give heavy emphasis to Chaucer, Donne, Jonson,
Twain, and Flannery and Frank O'Connor.  Thanks for any help!
 
Robert C. Evans (Bob)
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(3)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Jackson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 08 Jun 95 12:34:35 est
Subject: 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0457  Re: American and British Humor
 
I realize that this is off on a bit of a tangent, so I won't belabor it, but I
feel that someone must speak up for the late Benny Hill. Certainly, his later
work (after he became popular beyond Britain, in the U.S. and Australia) tended
to aim toward the lowest common denominator (people in states of undress,
"naughty" puerile nudge-nudge wink-wink jokes, etc.), but his earlier stuff
(while certainly not highbrow) could be quite amusing, especially his songs
(which sometimes employed a mixture of satire, pathos, and wordplay that WS
himself might appreciate). I once played Touchstone and I remember someone
remarking that the portrayal had some Benny Hill qualities (I don't think this
was intended as an insult); while I didn't have him in mind when developing the
character, I could certainly see the merits of the analogy.
 
Anyway, my point is: don't judge BH just by the trashy excerpts you saw on
American TV or the final work he did to capitalize on his later fame; also,
bear in mind that he used irony, inuendo, double-entendre and bawdiness, just
as did Monty Python, Joe Orton, Noel Coward, Chaucer and WS; they just
sometimes have different styles. I would say that "British humor" is a nebulous
phrase, but it certainly encompasses a long tradition of men in drag, men
without trousers, women in underwear, and bodily functions, just as much as
irony and witty repartee.
 
I recall a BH sketch in which he (Newhart-style) portrayed WS' agent on the
telephone to WS, asking him about the commercial viablilty of his plays.
 
I also recall my English teacher's introductory remarks about Hamlet when I was
16: "This is a play about many things, including sex - which is not only great
fun, but also very funny."
 
So much for the state of British schooling (I believe Margaret Thatcher was
Education Minister at the time)
 
David Jackson
 
(4)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           An Sonjae <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 9 Jun 1995 09:23:36 +0900 (KST)
Subject: 6.0457 Re: American and British Humor; Miss-Begetting
Comment:        Re: SHK 6.0457 Re: American and British Humor; Miss-Begetting
 
On a more literary level than Benny Hill I would be very interested to hear
what have been the American responses to the poetry of Wendy Cope? Her first
book of poems was called "Making Cocoa for Kingsley Amis" which is pretty
Kultur-spezifisch, her second "Serious Concerns" has me rolling in fits yet the
title is absolutely right, these are really serious poetic statements. National
stereotyping of any kind is surely a waste of time, and can loose British
ministers their jobs but in terms of reception theory we can surely ask whether
a best-selling British poet has the same impact elsewhere and if not why not? I
certainly feel a rough edge in British attitudes to Life that seems to be
smothered in sugar across the Atlantic. An Sonjae
 
Sogang University, Seoul, Korea
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