Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 1997 :: January ::
Re: WT; Quotation; Dover Cliff; Cordelia and the Fool
Shakespeare Electronic Conference, SHK 8.0159.  Friday, 31 January 1997.

(1)     From:   Dale Lyles <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Thursday, 30 Jan 1997 13:11:44 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0145 Re: WT Productions

(2)     From:   Michael Friedman <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Thursday, 30 Jan 1997 14:27:06 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0147  Qs: Quotation

(3)     From:   Michael Skovmand <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 31 Jan 1997 12:18:14 MET
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0153  Re: Dover Cliff

(4)     From:   Roger Schmeeckle <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 31 Jan 1997 14:29:23 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0125  Re: Cordelia and the Fool, and Doubling


(1)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dale Lyles <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Thursday, 30 Jan 1997 13:11:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 8.0145 Re: WT Productions
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0145 Re: WT Productions

I don't think I can agree with Edward van Aelstyn's assessment that Hermione's
innocence *must* be ambiguous.  Shakespeare is usually straightforward about
these things, and in WT everyone (including Apollo) tells Leontes he's crazy to
think that Hermione is unfaithful.  If Leontes is in doubt, no one else in
Sicilia is.  The difference in WT is that no one is practicing on him as is
usual in the other plays about deception.  Leontes deceives himself.

The theme is not just forgiveness, it's *grace*, which is the unmerited
bestowal of forgiveness.  I think it works better if Leontes' jealousy is
without justification; otherwise, if he had real reason to accuse everyone
around him, what's to forgive?

And boy I wish I had thought of the statuary garden idea!  How beautiful! Did
they use the performers, a la Hermione, or did they have actual statues? The
latter would seem to me to be a "giveaway" about Hermione.

Dale Lyles<---wondering how he would have convinced his 7-year-old son to stay
for the end of the show and get back into his costume for the final scene
Newnan Community Theatre Company

(2)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Friedman <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Thursday, 30 Jan 1997 14:27:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 8.0147  Qs: Quotation
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0147  Qs: Quotation

Alan,

I'm not sure that the lines of verse to which you refer are quoted from a play.
 They sound more like a modern allusion to Lady Macbeth's "I have given suck,
and know / How tender 'tis to love the babe that milks me" (1.7.54-55).

                                                        Michael Friedman
                                                        University of Scranton

(3)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Skovmand <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 31 Jan 1997 12:18:14 MET
Subject: 8.0153  Re: Dover Cliff
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0153  Re: Dover Cliff

To Mary Jane Miller et al., on the cliff in Lear:

MJM reiterates Ian Kott's idea from his 'King Lear or Endgame* in *Shakespeare
Our Contemporary* to the effect that "in film and in prose there is only the
choice between a real stone lying in the sand and and an equally real jump from
the top of a chalk cliff into the sea. One cannot transpose Gloster's suicide
attempt to the screen, unless one were to film a stage performance."(p.115).
Peter Brook, heavily influenced by Kott, took Kott's word for it and did a
totally anti-illusionist Dover cliff scene in his 1971 Lear, filmed on the flat
sands of Northern Jutland.

Interestingly, however, the 1983 TV production, directed by Michael Elliott,
featuring Laurence Olivier as Lear, manages to reproduce the theatrical double
whammy - and how? Very simply, by keeping the camera on Edgar and Gloucester,
without showing the ground they're standing on! As Gloucester hits the ground,
Elliott cuts to a high angle shot of G. lying on the flat sands. The camera, in
other words, does not have to reproduce the world unambiguously . Its
selectivity - in this case not showing the ground - parallels the function of
the stage, which can be anything we pronounce it to be.

Michael Skovmand
U. of Aarhus, Denmark.

(4)----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Roger Schmeeckle <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 31 Jan 1997 14:29:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 8.0125  Re: Cordelia and the Fool, and Doubling
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0125  Re: Cordelia and the Fool, and Doubling

It would seem that the fool's pining away is conclusive evidence against the
fool and Cordelia being the same person, unless one is prepared to believe his
behavior is part of an elaborate deception.  Is there any example elsewhere in
Shakespeare of such an impersonation without Shakespeare giving a clue to it?

     Cordelia's lines: "...when I shall wed,
                        That lord whose hand must take my plight shall
                              carry
                        Half my love with him..."

imply that Cordelia would be mindful of her duties to her husband.

The fool and Cordelia have different functions: the fool provides a rational
commentary on Lear's actions; Cordelia represents a more than natural saving
function, characterized by forgiveness, and leading to reconciliation.

Compare the friar in R&J.  He provides a rational commentary on Romeo:

        "Art thou a man? Thy form cries out thou art;
         Thy tears are womanish; thy wild acts denote
         The unreasonable fury of a beast....."

                 etc.

Note that the friar combines the functions of the fool and Cordelia, providing
both a radical commentary and a more than natural attempt to help Romeo and
Juliet while bringing about a reconciliation of their families.  He fails in
one while achieving the other, just as in Lear, Cordelia fails to save Lear on
the physical, temporal level, while bringing about personal reconciliation.
Cordelia seems to clearly be a Christ figure.

     Roger Schmeeckle
 

Other Messages In This Thread

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.