1997

Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.0514.  Thursday, 1 May 1997.

[1]     From:   Jeff Myers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 16:25:35 GMT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing

[2]     From:   Michael S. Hart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 12:52:09 -0500 (CDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing

[3]     From:   Nick Kind <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 17:04:31 +0100
        Subj:   Encryption Methods for CDs


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Jeff Myers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 16:25:35 GMT
Subject: 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing

>From:           Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
>The Internet Shakespeare Editions will be refereed, scholarly, and fully
>annotated; all texts and materials posted on the site will be freely
>available for educational, non-profit use. CDs generated from them
>should cost under $50 each. Question: would there be a market for them?

Depending on quality, I'd definitely consider making such a text _the_
text in my Shakespeare classes.  We're renovating the humanities
building, which will have a large computer-equipped classroom, and we're
also planning to implement providing our entering students with
laptops.  So, you'd have a real shot at my business (about 65 students
per year).

>From:           Ed Peschko <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
>Now, if only the companies could come up with a way to encrypt the data,
>on disk, so that no one could successfully *pirate* it. Now, that would
>be extremely helpful at lowering prices.

I believe the trick is to make the product so reasonably affordable that
the user doesn't really want to pirate it.  Even such added value as
notification about upgrades can decrease the incentive.  And I would
think the same principle would apply to large-scale overseas pirating.
Only extremely expensive programs are worth the effort.

>From:           Nick Kind <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
>I'm glad you think our product is "fabulous" - thank you.

It is!  Shakespearean cyberlust!

>Naturally, I'm
>disappointed that you (and others) find the price difficult; we have
>thought very carefully about it in consultation with an eminent
>editorial board. We feel that you are getting excellent value for money
>with:

I'm not sure what "an eminent editorial board" knows about pricing.
And, of course, the important point is that the purchasers, not the
seller, must feel they are getting "excellent value for money."

>*A highly sophisticated interface which brings Shakespeare research onto
>a new level. It includes thousands of hypertext links, is fully
>searchable in a number of complex ways, and lets you display a lot of
>information simultaneously but clearly (notably folio, quarto, Arden
>text and commentary all on the same, scrollable, screen).
>
>*All 39 Arden 2 texts, including apparatus, plus the Arden 1 Sonnets
>(these latter weren't produced in Arden 2)

So, the Sonnets text is really outdated, I guess.  A bit difficult for a
$4,000 product.  Are all the plays on the CD in the most recent Arden
editions?
>The price, as you say, includes a ten user license. So leaving out the
>folio and quarto facsimiles, even though these were costly and are a
>vital part of the CD, you get a price of under $100 per text ($3,995
>list price by 45 texts); divide this into the allowed number of users
>and you get under $9 per person, per text. That's less than the price of
>the paper book for each student - and you get all the benefits of our
>interface!

Hmmm . . .  Under such reasoning, Bevington's Shakespeare is a fantastic
bargain!

>Incidentally, the development of the Arden CD-ROM has taken several
>years and cost over 600,000 pounds sterling to develop directly so far,
>excluding any "overhead" cost (i.e. staff/ buildings/ admin/ management
>etc. at Routledge and Thomas Nelson). So we're probably looking at a
>million dollar plus development cost.

I wonder what the development costs were for Bevington's edition?  Of
course, there's no CD-Rom involved.  Perhaps a better example might be a
recording of a Mozart opera by the Met.  Imagine the incredible number
of person-hours involved in making such a recording possible!  Yet, they
manage to sell their recordings for considerably less than $4,000.

>Please feel free to respond to me either in public here on SHAKSPER or
>privately via email. I've recently been employed specifically to develop
>the Arden electronically and would be interested in any comments,
>suggestions, likes or dislikes people may have about Shakespeare in any
>electronic format, including the internet. I'm here to try and develop
>things you want to use and buy!

You've done it!  I want to buy and use it.  Now, price it so that I
and/or ("and," I hope) my students can purchase it.  Otherwise, it will
remain a curiosity for most potential users.

Curmudgeonly yours,
Jeff Myers

[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael S. Hart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 12:52:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0508  Re: OED and CD-ROM Pricing

>I wonder how expensive the earliest books were compared to the
>manuscripts they replaced.  Did printed books offer any added value, as
>CD-Roms do?

The earliest moveable type books were priced at about 1/400th the same
book written in manuscript [which were priced at about the same price as
the average family farm].

As for the other questions about the prices of CDROMs, even if you had
only $1,000 made, it would still often be less than $1 each.  Add in a
box, paper literature you might want included, etc.

There are lots of companies out there making a profit by selling CDROM
and CD packages for under $5.

If you think rehearsing an entire orchestra for months, and making the
necessary recordings, edits, etc., costs less than typing Shakespeare, I
would suggest you do some research.

As for the comments by those say companies would prefer to sell copies
to a greater market at a reduced price. . .I would suggest research on
that topic as well.

There are still many places who are so elitist that they would prefer,
to an unbelievable degree, to sell 1,000 items to 1,000 people at 100%
profit per item [or close to it] than for "everyone" to have a copy.

Even severe competition and commentary will not stop this.

I would still be happy to work on getting more "proven public domain" of
Shakespeare on the Net.

Thanks!

[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Nick Kind <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 17:04:31 +0100
Subject:        Encryption Methods for CDs

In reply to Ed Peschko's comment about encryption methods for CDs -
there _are_ a number available, from vendors such as C-Dilla, which I am
happy to tell people about if they would like to email me individually.
They all have their various pros and cons!

Re: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the Subject

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.0513.  Thursday, 1 May 1997.

[1]     From:   Peter C. Herman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 07:52:10 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

[2]     From:   A.E.B. Coldiron <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 11:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

[3]     From:   Taiwon Kim <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 15:25:42 EST
        Subj:   RE: SHK 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

[4]     From:   Chris Stroffolino <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 23:57:49 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter C. Herman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 07:52:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

>Has anyone any suggestions for relevant books or material on the
>importance of the soliloquy to the construction of the subject in
>Renaissance drama? Thanks.

James Hirsch has a terrific article on Hamlet's "To Be or Not To Be"
speech in a recent issue of Modern Language Quarterly (I think). He's
the man to contact and/or read.

Peter C. Herman

[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           A.E.B. Coldiron <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 11:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

Katharine Maus, _Inwardness and Theatre_, is a good place to start, and
follow her bibliography.  Regards, A.

[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Taiwon Kim <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 15:25:42 EST
Subject: 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Comment:        RE: SHK 8.0510  Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

Hi,

I think you may want to look at Raymond Williams' essay, "On Dramatic
dialogue and monologue" in <Writing in Society> (Verson, 1984). The same
issue was dealt with in his book <Culture> (Fontana, 1984), pp.139-147.
Katherine Belsey is also taking up the issue in her book <The Subject of
Tragedy> (methuen, ?) which I don't have now, so that I cannot provide
the page numbers.

Taiwon Kim
University of Florida

[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Chris Stroffolino <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Apr 1997 23:57:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.0510 Q: The Soliloquy and the Construction of the
Subject

Dear Diane Hughes-Off the top of the cuff, I can not think of any
particular
references about soliloquies (but I'm sure some will come), but I am
very interested in this issue, and also the issue of how soliloquies
came to be privileged (in post Coleridgean/Bradleyan) as not only more
"authentic" but also more "poetic" than other discursive forms in
Shakespeare (witty stichomythias, for instance), and what the
implications of this "misreading" have been (for instance, the idea some
still cling to that soliloquies are somehow beyond rhetoric, and are NOT
performative).  I think the relationship of soliloquies to lyric poetry
(the kind that adheres to the convention of a singular lyric "speaker")
might be worth exploring in this connection, and am currently working on
comparing (and contrasting) Shakespeare's Sonnet 8 to RICHARD II's
POMFRET SOLILOQUY to explore their formal dialogic (and
self-referential/meta-poetic) aspects. In the process, I am reading JOEL
FINEMAN'S excellent "Shakespeare's Perjured Eye" (should be underlined,
not in quotes), which argues that in the sonnets Shakespeare was largely
responsible for constructing modern subjectivity.  Although I disagree
with the historical ramifications of his argument, that prefers to see
Shakespeare representing a clean break from earlier subjectivities (and
much prefer the argument of someone like Rosalie Colie in Shakespeare's
Living Art, who argues more for the historical continuity), and although
Fineman's emphasis is primarily on the SONNETS and not SOLILOQUIES
within the plays (he died, alas, before moving to that aspect of his
project), much of what he says about the kind of subjectivity he detects
in the sonnets can apply VERY well to the soliloquies as well,
especially if one tends to see the soliloquies as "lyric" poems, which
I'd argue is a valuable endeavor, even if at a certain point, they must
be seen within the context of the "surrounding" play, whose meaning they
are determined by, but also may determine (more than quite a few
critics/readers allow themselves to admit). I hope this has at least
SOME relevance to your inquiry. Thanks, Chris Stroffolino

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