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Home :: Archive :: 1997 :: November ::
Re: Err; Conception; No Matter; Cleopatra; Isabella
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1142.  Thursday, 13 November 1997.

[1]     From:   David M Richman <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 09:54:12 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1133  Q: Casting Err

[2]     From:   Scott Shepherd <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 10:26:49 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1137  Angelo's Sexuality

[3]     From:   Abigail Quart <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 22:10:44 -0500
        Subj:   Genital Conception

[4]     From:   Scott Shepherd <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 11:50:47 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1138  No Matter

[5]     From:   Naomi Liebler <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 18:12:56 -0400 (EDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1137  Re: Cleopatra

[6]     From:   Gabriel Egan <
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        Date:   Thursday, 13 Nov 1997 00:52:49 +0
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1126 Running


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David M Richman <
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Date:           Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 09:54:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 8.1133  Q: Casting Err
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1133  Q: Casting Err

On double casting Comedy of Errors:  We used puppets for the final
scene. Each puppet was made to resemble closely his human twin.  Each
human actor ran he appropriate puppet.  The effect worked quite
well-eliciting gasps and ovations.  Another production made inventive
use of mirrors: each twin speaking and being answered by his reflection
in the glass.  David Richman

[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Scott Shepherd <
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Date:           Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 10:26:49 -0500
Subject: 8.1137  Angelo's Sexuality
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1137  Angelo's Sexuality

>"Conception" does not have its modern genital meaning.  It means in
>context my idea of her or my fantasy of her.  (Sh's word for our genital
>"conception" is "engendering".)
>
>What the carrion does in the sun is rot, surely.  Swelling is from
>gasses trapped in a rotting corpse.  The physical language of this play
>is quite strong and sometimes repellent.

>John Velz,

I can't find "carrion" in MM, so I think you might be referring to
Hamlet's

"For if the sun breed maggots in a dead dog, being a good kissing
carrion,--Have you a daughter? . . . Let her not walk i'th' sun:
conception is a blessing, but not as your daughter may conceive. . . ."

But surely conception means engendering here, since the sun's propensity
for breeding is what Ophelia needs protection from.

Scott Shepherd

[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Abigail Quart <
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Date:           Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 22:10:44 -0500
Subject:        Genital Conception

Hamlet: Let her not walk i' the sun. Conception is a blessing, but not
as your daughter may conceive--friend, look to it.

He was warning Polonius not to let Ophelia THINK?

[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Scott Shepherd <
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Date:           Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 11:50:47 -0500
Subject: 8.1138  No Matter
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1138  No Matter

Certainly "no matter" and "it is no matter" meant then what "it doesn't
matter" means now, but combinations with the phrase are limited (in
Shakespeare) to

        no matter FOR something (e.g. "it is no matter for that")
        no matter WHAT/WHERE/WHITHER/HOW/WHO
        no matter IF

I find only 2 no matter ifs, in 2G and 2H4, but that might support a
reading like

        mere words, no matter [if] from the heart

but the if not actually being in the text makes this a bit of a stretch,
even for an under meaning.

Also it's impossible to read the Troilus line without thinking of
Hamlet's "Words words words" to which Polonius responds "What is the
matter my lord?" which pretty clearly suggests that
words:matter::text:meaning (or something like that), and that these
terms, while perhaps not quite technical, had particular connotations
when talking about (written) language.

[5]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Naomi Liebler <
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Date:           Wednesday, 12 Nov 1997 18:12:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 8.1137  Re: Cleopatra
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1137  Re: Cleopatra

Mike Sirofchuk writes in defense of Cleopatra, "Lest we forget-much  of
what we readily know of Cleopatra was written by the victors, and they
are known for   telling history to suit themselves." You might want to
take another look at what SHAKESPEARE readily knew of Cleopatra-in
North's Plutarch's _Life of Antony_. Cleo gets approximately half of
that narrative, and it's a much more favorable account than anything
Plutarch has to say about what's-his-name.  Moreover, the narrative
makes all of the points about Cleopatra's erudition, her diplomacy, her
regal dignity, etc., that Mike offers. And Plutarch, of     course, was
a Greek (Theban, actually) who ultimately went to live among, but  never
was one of, "the victors."

Cheers,
Naomi Liebler

[6]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Gabriel Egan <
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Date:           Thursday, 13 Nov 1997 00:52:49 +0
Subject: 8.1126 Running
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1126 Running

John Velz wrote

> Syd Kasten's suggested staging for Isabella's entrance in MM
> 4.1 is interesting, but we must remember that she is a
> would-be nun to whom eternity is more real than time.

She's not a nun, surely, but a nun-to-be. And one who's unhappy about
the restrictions:

ISABELLA  And have you nuns no father privileges?
FRANCESCA  Are these not large enough?
ISABELLA  Yes, truly. I speak not as desiring more,
  But rather wishing a more strict restraint
  Upon the sisterhood, the votarists of St Clare.
(1.4.1-5)

I don't know about you, but when I feel I've betrayed my  thoughts by
incautious probing, I say something like "Yes,  truly. I speak not as
desiring more..."

I think Bernice Kliman argued that Isabella and Claudio are recently
orphaned, and that the former's entry into the order is reluctant.

Gabriel Egan
 

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