1997

Re: Journals; Pronunciation; Cuts; R3/Iago; Prayers

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1107.  Sunday, 2 November 1997.

[1]     From:   Al Cacicedo <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:56:08 -0400
        Subj:   Re: Student Journals

[2]     From:   Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:29:54 -0800
        Subj:   Elizabethan Pronunciation

[3]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:13:23 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1091  Cuts

[4]     From:   Gary Kosinsky <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 19:22:41 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1102 Richard III vs. Iago

[5]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 12:54:43 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1093 Running


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Al Cacicedo <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:56:08 -0400
Subject:        Re: Student Journals

It is not a specifically Shakespearean journal, but the _Rectangle_,
published by the English Honor Society, Sigma Tau Delta, publishes
undergraduate work.  Of course, one has to be a member of the
organization and pay for the privilege-but that may be good training in
joining the profession.-Al Cacicedo

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:29:54 -0800
Subject:        Elizabethan Pronunciation

What modern accent best approximates Shakespeare's? When I was preparing
a CD ROM on Shakespeare's Life and Times, I worked with a colleague-both
an actor and a medievalist-to reconstruct some passages as an original
audience might have heard them, specifically to resurrect puns we no
longer hear (reason/raisin; room/Rome, and so on). We worked with
Ko:keritz, both the book and an LP on which he read (very carefully,
very academically) passages in his reconstruction of various periods of
English. The result on the CD ROM is an accent that sounds distinctly
Welsh. But then again that might be because my colleague is Antony
Jenkins, and you can guess where he came from originally.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:13:23 -0500
Subject: 8.1091  Cuts
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1091  Cuts

Gabriel Egan writes:

>Of course, we can argue about the evidence for length of original
>performances and, most interestingly, whether original performances cut
>text.

From the extant promptbooks (call them that if you wish), we have
evidence (cross-hatching) that passages were cut for performance.
Unfortunately, none of the extant promptbooks contain a known play by
Shakespeare.

Yours, Bill Godshalk

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Gary Kosinsky <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 19:22:41 -0800
Subject: 8.1102 Richard III vs. Iago
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1102 Richard III vs. Iago

>"Who is more 'evil,' Richard III or Iago?"

>This is a question I asked my Shakespeare class (for which I am teaching
>assistant) today as we discussed _Richard III_.  Their responses were
>limited to comparisons; no one would venture an opinion.

I was puzzling over a variation of this problem in another group in a
different context:

If Iago had been the middle son instead of George, Duke of Clarence,
would Richard still have been able to manipulate his way to the throne?

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 12:54:43 -0500
Subject: 8.1093 Running
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1093 Running

>But, not in contradiction but maybe further proof, I was checking lines
>for meter when I realized that in Angelo's "when prayers cross" prayers
>is the two syllable pray-ers unless you pronounce "hours" as a
>two-syllable word.
>
>Ang: (Aside) Amen:
>        For I am that way going to temptation,
>        Where prayers cross.

Is there a distinction between "prayers" (people who pray, two
syllables) and "prayers" (the product of praying, one syllable)?  If so,
Angelo may thinking about devout people (prayers) copulating. Eh? It
works in context.

Yours, Bill Godshalk

Identification

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1106.  Sunday, 2 November 1997.

From:           Shaul Bassi <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 21:17:44 +0100 (MET)
Subject:        Identification

I am interested in the subject of identification, with special reference
to Shakespearean characters. How do we identify with literary
characters, and with actors who embody Hamlet, Juliet, Macbeth, etc...?
Norman Holland (*The Dynamics of Literary Response*, 1968) traces the
history of identification in Shakespeare criticism. Patrice Pavis
(*L'analyse du spectacle*, 1997), drawing on the work of Hans Robert
Jauss, theorizes different form of spectators' identification with
actors. Janet Adelman ("Iago's Alter Ego: Race as Projection in
Othello", SQ, 48/2,1997) convincingly applies Melanie Klein's concept of
projective identification to the relationship between Iago and Othello.
I have found these three texts, with their very different perspectives,
a good starting point. I now seek the help of SHAKESPEReans to expand
this bibliography. I am above all interested in your perspective on
identification.

Sympathetically,
Shaul Bassi
(Venezia, Italy)

Re: Hamlet/Ophelia/Laertes

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1104.  Sunday, 2 November 1997.

[1]     From:   Abigail Quart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:12 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1091  Re: Hamlet

[2]     From:   Elizabeth Dietz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:25:46 -0600 (CST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia

[3]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:28:46 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia

[4]     From:   Parviz Nourpanah  <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 1 Nov 1997 12:54:04 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1088  Q: Hamlet/Ophelia


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Abigail Quart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:12:12 -0500
Subject: 8.1091  Re: Hamlet
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1091  Re: Hamlet

Mathew Gretzinger has a good point about Hamlet's jealousy of people who
can express emotion. The "what's he to Hecuba" is a sore point with
Hamlet, and he keeps trying to bring himself up to the performance level
of acted emotion.

But I still see Laertes as a worm. He seemingly acts as Hamlet would
like to see himself act, full of bravado and panache, without
hesitation. Hamlet wouldn't kill Claudius in the act of prayer, but
Laertes swears he'll kill Hamlet even in church. Sounds good. Bold. But
when the jig is up, Laertes doesn't take the risk. He rats on Claudius
and begs Hamlet's forgiveness.  Hey, I thought the guy murdered your
father! Hamlet is willing to face God with Claudius' blood on his hands,
but Laertes wants to make sure his own are pristine for that difficult
interview. Little wuss.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Elizabeth Dietz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:25:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia

Another angle on the scuffle at Ophelia's grave:  instead of love, or
guilt, a look at the tradition of the blazon suggest competitive
self-interest.  Early modern lit has a long tradition of praising a
beloved lady-and dismembering her in the process (see Nancy Vickers'
"Diana Described," among others).  The verbal conquest/dismemberment of
the lady serves to (1) prove the poet's virtuosity (even as by
cataloging her parts, he claims to immortalize her) and (2)rescue the
poet from himself being shattered by the inadequacy of language to allow
him to speak fully (which Vickers describes as a sort of
Medusa-effect).  In this scenario, Laertes and Hamlet triangulate their
own aggressive competition through Ophelia, each claiming a defining
relationship with her.  It's somewhat witty, given the blazon's
function, that both of them have arguably "put her in her grave" through
their actions.

Elizabeth Dietz
elizabeth-dietz@uiowa edu

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1095  Re: Hamlet/Ophelia

Terence Hawkes writes:

>That a place of
>extinction (a grave)  should be capable of metaphorical linkage with a
>place of generation (a bed) tells us a lot about a wholesale reinvention
>of death that the culture at large had embarked upon. This and much more
>is brilliantly explored in Michael Neill's fascinating new book 'Issues
>of Death: Mortality and Identity in English Renaissance Tragedy'  (OUP).

Doesn't the womb/tomb connection go way back? If you don't want to see
it in Homer (and why not?), surely it's present in Virgil's
<italic>Aeneid</italic>. The cave into which Dido and Aeneas go, I
think, is a teasingly ambiguous example. Aeneas goes in as a Trojan (you
may laugh), and comes out, reborn, as a Carthaginian. At least for a
little while.

Yours, Bill Godshalk

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Parviz Nourpanah  <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 1 Nov 1997 12:54:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 8.1088  Q: Hamlet/Ophelia
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1088  Q: Hamlet/Ophelia

> Hamlet exclaims: "Dost thou come her to
> whine, / To outface me with leaping in her grave?" (V.1.262-3).  Why
> does Hamlet feel that his romantic love for Ophelia is threatened by her
> own brother?

I have been a member of SHAKSPER for a couple of weeks now, although
this is my first contribution to it. Here goes:

What has struck me as quite unusual and surprising in these discussions
on Shakespeare's plays is the tendency to read abnormal/unnatural (I am
quite hesitant over the choice of words, I hope I am giving offense to
nobody) forms of love, e.g. incestuous or homosexual, into what seem to
me to be the most perfectly obvious and natural relationships between
fathers and daughters, brothers and sisters, friends of the same gender,
etc. As an Iranian who has spent only four years in the North of England
studying literature (where the atmosphere was, if anything, pruder and
more conservative than here in Iran), I even find some of the
terminology that modern Westerners use (like homo-erotic (?) quite
bewildering.  For me, brought up in a very close family community, the
reaction of Laertes to Hamlet, and vice versa, (or even the Duchess of
Malfi and her brother) is not only perfectly obvious, but indeed, I do
not see how it could be otherwise, (even without postulating the
existence of a sexual relationship between them). Even today, in Iran,
brothers and fathers get annoyed or upset if they find a girl of their
family has been having some form of relationship; even perfectly legal,
above-board courting is quite difficult for them to accept. This
attitude is not only tolerated, but in fact lauded, and is distinguished
from mere jealousy with a word with has more positive connotations. A
brother *should* be jealous of his sister, it is a perfectly acceptable
feeling.  I think that maybe in the west (pardon the huge
generalization), where family bonds are somewhat more relax, Laertes's
attitude is rather difficult to accept, but maybe in Shakespeare's time,
family ties were rather more similar to eastern countries today.

Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant; Gay Mercutio

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1105.  Sunday, 2 November 1997.

[1]     From:   David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:47:46 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

[2]     From:   Elizabeth Dietz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:27:36 -0600 (CST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

[3]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:07:13 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1090  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

[4]     From:   Terence Hawkes <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 1 Nov 1997 07:54:39 -0500
        Subj:   SHK 8.1090  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:47:46 -0500
Subject: 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

Andy White and others interested in a possible homoerotic element in the
friendship of Antonio and Bassanio will be stimulated but not, I think,
made certain by the treatment it gets in Jonathan Miller's made-for-TV
film, with Laurence Olivier as Shylock, Joan Plowright as Portia, and
Jeremy Brett (he whose reading Andy so much admires) as Bassanio; the
film is now available on tape, and is well worth seeing on many other
grounds.  It is certainly the case that in this production Bassanio's
approaches to Portia are markedly less passionate than hers to him, and
that at the end of the play a not obviously ecstatic Bassanio has
followed Portia into what she still calls her house and that a
still-melancholy Antonio seems to have included himself out (along with
Jessica) of the cozy new domestic group.

Dave Evett

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Elizabeth Dietz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 11:27:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1097  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

In "Players of Shakespeare," v.2, Roger Allam writes about acting a
queer Mercutio (a choice echoed in Lehrman's Romeo and Juliet).

Elizabeth Dietz

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 17:07:13 -0500
Subject: 8.1090  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1090  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

Regarding gay Venice, has anyone mentioned Richard Levin's <italic>Love
and Society in Shakespearean Comedy</italic>?  Richard has two chapters
on <italic>Merchant</italic> in which he gives a off-beat reading of
both Shylock and Antonio.

To my knowledge, the first critic to publish a gay reading of
<italic>Merchant</italic> was Graham Midgley in 1960, but I don't recall
seeing his name again. Is it a pseudonym?


Yours, Bill Godshalk

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Terence Hawkes <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 1 Nov 1997 07:54:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant
Comment:        SHK 8.1090  Re: Gay Iago; Gay Merchant

Dear Scott Shepherd: How right you are. I too have noticed that a number
of men in Shakespeare's plays

1. Speak 'poetically'
2. Kiss each other on the lips
3. Wear brightly coloured clothes
4. Cry

One of my students tells me that most of the women are in fact men in
drag. I think they should all be reported to the Cincinnati Shakespeare
Festival.

Terence Hawkes

Re: Assorted Macbeth Postings

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 8.1103.  Sunday, 2 November 1997.

[1]     From:   David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:36:05 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1096  Assorted Macbeth Postings

[2]     From:   Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:29:54 -0800
        Subj:   Macbeth summarized

[3]     From:   Narrelle Harris <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 00:17:25 +0800
        Subj:   Simplified Macbeth

[4]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 19:04:57 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 8.1098  Re: Assorted Macbeth Postings


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:36:05 -0500
Subject: 8.1096  Assorted Macbeth Postings
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1096  Assorted Macbeth Postings

>Are these lines a summary of *Macbeth*?
>
>        Double, double, toil and trouble;
>        Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

Joseph Tate might tell his friend that they apply at least equally well
to *The Comedy of Errors*.

Dave Evett

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Best <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 31 Oct 1997 10:29:54 -0800
Subject:        Macbeth summarized

Sure -- it's a summary of life, the universe, and everything.

Have others noticed how many times we are prepared to announce that a
given play is "about" this or that? Is it because we are teachers of
students who want answers rather than questions that we are so willing
to treat plays as though they could be solved? Thurber's lovely parable
is a perfect example of the tendency taken to its extreme.

By the way, Bill Godshalk and Michael Mullins are distantly related
through a common ancestor who bore an uncanny resemblance to James
Thurber.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Narrelle Harris <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 00:17:25 +0800
Subject:        Simplified Macbeth

Richard Nathan gives a few insights into why the first line of:

>        Double, double, toil and trouble;
>        Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.

would summarise Macbeth (as suggested by Joseph Tate) but says:

>However, I
>have no idea how someone could argue that the "Fire burn, and cauldron
>bubble" is a summary of the play.

Given the quote as a challenge, I immediately thought of causality in
relation to the second line.  The witches are the fire applied to
Macbeth (or the whole Scottish court) to make that 'cauldron bubble'.
Lady M must apply fire to Mac's cauldron as well, to make him act.  She
herself must call upon 'murdering ministers' to spur her into action.
MacDuff is not moved to act openly until the murder of his family.
Off-hand, it seems some people in this play have to be *provoked* into
action, rather than *choosing* to act.

I don't know how far you can take this idea - not very, I suspect, but
it's one way of interpreting these lines as encapsulating Macbeth.  I
wouldn't really recommend it as more than an exercise, myself, but it
might be fun to see what students could pull out of it as a discussion.

Narrelle Harris

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 01 Nov 1997 19:04:57 -0500
Subject: 8.1098  Re: Assorted Macbeth Postings
Comment:        Re: SHK 8.1098  Re: Assorted Macbeth Postings

>Dr. Mullin has a full growth of beard, and sports a rather natty beret-at
>least when he's biking  . . . .

That proves it! Godshalk and Mullin are the same person.  Or, perhaps,
they've both read Thurber.

Yours, Bill Mullin, ur a Godshalk

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