1998

Re: Rickmansworth; Isabella; Lion King; Sonnets

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 9.1086  Wednesday, 4 November 1998.

[1]     From:   Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 07:26:40 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1081  Re: Gertrude

[2]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 17:25:36 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1079  Re: Isabella

[3]     From:   Mason West <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 04 Nov 1998 00:33:23 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1078  Re: Lion King 2

[4]     From:   Karen E Peterson-Kranz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 4 Nov 1998 11:05:39 +1000 (GMT+1000)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1043  Teaching the Sonnets


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 07:26:40 -0800
Subject: 9.1081  Re: Gertrude
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1081  Re: Gertrude

Terry writes:

> understand Gertrude. Mind you, I once passed through Rickmansworth and
> felt that I had got to the bottom of King Lear. It didn't last.

Was that when you decided it was all about unemployment?

Cheers,
Sean.

[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 17:25:36 -0500
Subject: 9.1079  Re: Isabella
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1079  Re: Isabella

Ed Taft writes:

>Isn't the preferred state in this play married love, which
>if faithful, is a kind of chastity?  The reason has to do with Isabella,
>I think. Her gifts are not well used in the cloister, but they will be
>as helpmate to the Duke. I'm thinking in particular of her rhetorical
>gifts, which, arguably, she possesses more of than any other character
>in the play.

Well, I think monogamous married love is chaste, if we define chastity
as sexual exclusivity. Chastity is not virginity. True virginity is no
sex at all. That seems to be what Isabella wants, none at all.

If marriage is the preferred state in <italic>Measure for
Measure</italic>, I'd still hate to be married to Angelo (were I
Mariana, of course), because Angelo is too prenzy for my tastes. In
contrast, Lucio isn't likely to be a very monogamous husband. Not much
chance for love in one marriage, or for chastity in the other.

And, of course, does Isabella take the Duke's offer?  If she has a way
with words, she certainly doesn't use any to accept Vincentio's offer.
If she'd rather that her brother die than she have intercourse with a
man, I doubt if she's going to jump into bed with the questionable duke
of dark corners who has for fourteen years allowed his people too much
scope (or so he tells Friar Thomas). After all, until the last scene of
the play, she thinks he's a priest. Now he offers something further.

As to Dave Evett's question about the bushes, I chastely decline to
answer.

Yours, Bill Godshalk

[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mason West <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 04 Nov 1998 00:33:23 -0600
Subject: 9.1078  Re: Lion King 2
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1078  Re: Lion King 2

Jason Mical of Drury College wrote: "I mentioned the connection between
the first Lion King and _Hamlet_ to a colleague and we both agreed that
the story more closely resemblesb _Richard III_, told from Richmond's
perspective (Richmond being Simba). _H_ is a possibility, but _R III_ is
more likely. "

I always suspected that the original _Lion King_ contains more than a
touch of Henry IV-is it part 2 when Prince Hal is off cavorting in the
public houses with his friends? The lion prince's dalliances seem to
parallel Hal's.

-- Mason West

[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Karen E Peterson-Kranz <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 4 Nov 1998 11:05:39 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: 9.1043  Teaching the Sonnets
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1043  Teaching the Sonnets

Dear Don-I have used Maya Angelou's *I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings* as
an entrance point.  Angelou describes Shakespeare as her "first white
love" because he wrote "When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes..."
I've asked students what a 10-year old black girl in 1930s Arkansas
would get out of the sonnet?  It seems to work, although I personally am
uncomfortable with asserting "universal meaningfulness" for any
literature.  I've also had classes read the sonnets out loud to each
other -- usually breaking up into groups or dyads works best for this,
then having them report on how different people's readings communicated
different effects.  You can get some interesting conversations going on
Sonnets 1-17 by asking them, "why is one man trying to persuade another
man, in the apparent absence of any potential spousal unit, to
reproduce?  What's going on here?"  This can lead to discussing
historical context.  Last but not least, just reading the sonnets out
loud, myself, to the students has been almost a necessity, to show how
the poems scan and how they might sound/mean.

Good luck! -- Karen Peterson-Kranz

Re: Puck and MND

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 9.1085  Wednesday, 4 November 1998.

[1]     From:   Penelope Rixon <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 14:23:35 -0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

[2]     From:   Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 07:25:18 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

[3]     From:   Timothy Peterson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 12:37:20 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

[4]     From:   W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 17:32:53 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

[5]     From:   Dale Lyles <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 20:00:20 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

[6]     From:   Richard Regan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 23:54:12 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 9.1082  MND


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Penelope Rixon <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 14:23:35 -0000
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

I think that, in one sense, Puck is the actor who subverts the
established authority of the Elizabethan state.  Like Elizabethan actors
he's nominally a servant of authority  but with his own agenda, one
which he furthers when he can.  His function in the epilogue is not
simply to beg for applause; instead, he's making clear the link between
his fairy identity and his role in the 'real' world where he has played
and will play other roles for the regular audience, roles which may
cause people to understand the injustice of the social system they live
in.  He offers you the chance to agree that the play has been a
worthless piece of escapism, but also to challenge that verdict.  The
Pyramus and Thisbe play has exposed for us the hypocrisy of the rulers
and the way they exploit the ruled, among other things, and Puck offers
the final comment this play makes on the nature of plays and playing

Penny Rixon

[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 07:25:18 -0800
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

> So, people, tell me about PUCK!! Who is he?

The OED notes that "the pook" was used by (I think) the Wycliffite Bible
to indicate the devil.  The sources and analogues book, by someone named
Sidgwick, I believe, includes a tale of Robin Goodfellow that casts him
in a different light.

Cheers,
Sean.

[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Timothy Peterson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 12:37:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

> 5. Why is Lysander the only one of the lovers targeted for the
> lovejuice?

I've always found the most fascinating aspect of MND to be its main
theme: the blurry line between reality and fantasy.  Are the lovers'
troubles really resolved?  At the end of the play, Lysander is in love,
but only because he's still under the lovejuice's spell.  He believes
he's in love.  Is that enough?  Does it matter?  What does MND say about
the nature of love, or reality?

[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           W. L. Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 03 Nov 1998 17:32:53 -0500
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

>5. Why is Lysander the only one of the lovers targeted for the
>lovejuice?

I can answer this one!  He isn't. Demetrius gets juiced too, and he does
not have the effects of the juice removed. Demetrius ends the play with
drug-impaired vision.

Hermia and Helena, on the other hand, do not have their vision altered.
But Titania does.

Yours, Bill Godshalk

[5]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dale Lyles <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 20:00:20 EST
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

In our production last fall, he was the source of the psychosexual
energy running underneath the entire play.  And at the end, when he
released the audience from his spell, the entire set vanished, leaving
only the bare theatre.

Dale Lyles
Newnan Community Theatre Company

[6]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Richard Regan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 23:54:12 EST
Subject: 9.1082  MND
Comment:        Re: SHK 9.1082  MND

I like the questions about MND posed by Stuart Manger, but would add:

Who is/are the operant powers of MND and The Tempest? This would get us
into the real identity of Puck, who together with Oberon is/are
surrogates for Shakespeare the magic artist playing with the destinies
of his characters in the green world. (They are matched in a pedestrian
way by Philostrate and Theseus in Athens.)

Puck and Oberon are the two sides of the comic artist. Oberon brings
peace to the lovers, while Puck engenders laughable discord. Puck is the
dangerous side of comedy: Groucho Marx observed that an old lady in a
runaway wheelchair is funny only if you use a real old lady.

Richard Regan
Fairfield University

Ashland Documentary

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 9.1083  Tuesday, 3 November 1998.

From:           Franklin J. Hildy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 02 Nov 1998 16:37:14 -0500
Subject:        Ashland Documentary

Last Friday WYCC 20 Chicago broadcast A college teaching program called
Something Ventured which turned out to be a 1991 documentary the Ashland
Shakespeare Festival. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this?

Thanks.
Franklin J.  Hildy

CUNY Ren Studies Fall Colloquium on Religion

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 9.1084  Wednesday, 4 November 1998.

From:           Martin Elsky <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 3 Nov 1998 08:43:20 -0500
Subject:        CUNY Ren Studies Fall Colloquium on Religion

[with apologies for cross-posting]

Fall CUNY Renaissance Studies Colloquium

Admission is free and open to the public

Friday, Nov 13, 1998
4:00-6:00pm

CUNY Graduate School
33 West 42 Street
New York, NY 10036
Third=floor Studio

First in a series:
'SCATTERED BODIES OF TRUTH': INTER-RELIGIOUS/SECTARIAN RELATIONS,
1450-1700

I. DOCTRINE AND TRANSFORMATIONS

Regina Schwartz (Northwestern University), "Real Hunger: Milton and
Reformation Poetics"

Ronnie Po-chia Hsia, (New York University), "Reuchlin and Jewish
Conversion"

Respondent: Richard McCoy (CUNY Graduate School and Queens College)

Reception

*****************************************
Full program and abstracts available at *
                                        *
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/dept/renai/      *
                                        *
*****************************************

For further information, contact Martin Elsky, Coordinator, CUNY
Renaissance Studies Certificate Program (212-642-2346;
<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>)

MND

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 9.1082  Tuesday, 3 November 1998.

From:           Stuart Manger <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 2 Nov 1998 19:06:45 +0000
Subject:        MND

In 'Dream' there are at least as interesting questions perhaps like:

1. Is Puck not more important than Theseus?

2. How much like Lear is Oberon at the start, how like Prospero at the
end?

3. Is Puck a proto Ariel?

4. Is Egeus an early Lear?

5. Why is Lysander the only one of the lovers targeted for the
lovejuice?

6. Think of the moment when the play balances literally on a knife edge
when Demetrius draws on Lysander - think what MIGHT happen next?

7. If this play is a comedy, then what is your definition of comedy?

8. Why is Puck so dejected at the end? So defensive? So SCARED? Read the
Epilogue; is he happy? or is he scared stiff? And why? Because when
Oberon needed him to wage war on Titania, he was wanted warmed by power
from the boss. Once the CEO makes it up
with Titania, then Puck is redundant as an instrument of mischief and
revenge - he ceases to ahve afunction, and is close to being cast into
outer darkness, but in this play without the benediction of the Oberon /
Prospero figure. Or are we going to hide behind the call-on tradition
that all Puck is doing is begging the audience for their applause?

9. Is there a coincidence that at the end of the two plays in which
Shakespeare treats of creatures with literally life-changing, universal
weather-changing powers (Oberon / Prospero) there is a servant / advisor
figure? In one, the advisor is desperately uncertain of his reception by
the audience? In the other it is the Prospero / mage-becoming-mortal
figure that is uneasy and begs for indulgence? And the advisor who is
liberated to the elements to be free? What's happening there?

I mean, stuff the 'triadic' significances, and tell me about the meat of
this so-called superficial play. MND is dynamite, under the guise of
fairydom and post Rackham whimsy and countless college plays with
simpering girls in tutus. For the Elizabethans, fairies were Other
World, dangerous, enigmatic, powerfully conscienceless, gleefully
mischievous. Unlike Dr Faustus where magic is merest cabaret, the magic
in this play is hugely disruptive, and transforming, life-changing and
also healing.

So, people, tell me about PUCK!! Who is he?

Stuart Manger

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