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Home :: Archive :: 1999 :: February ::
Re: Early Myth
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0250  Saturday, 13 February 1999.

[1]     From:   Wes Folkerth <
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        Date:   Friday, 12 Feb 1999 10:00:53 -0500
        Subj:   Re: Early Myth

[2]     From:   David Evett <
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        Date:   Friday, 12 Feb 1999 11:55:01 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth

[3]     From:   Stephanie Hughes <
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        Date:   Friday, 12 Feb 1999 11:07:32 +0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth

[4]     From:   Clifford Stetner <
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        Date:   Friday, 12 Feb 1999 22:57:48 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Wes Folkerth <
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Date:           Friday, 12 Feb 1999 10:00:53 -0500
Subject:        Re: Early Myth

Yet another iteration of the river-crossing story occurs in Gargantua
and Pantagruel-Book Three, chapter 23.  Panurge tells the story of Jean
Dodin, bailiff of Coudray, and Brother Adam Heavyballs.  Dodin gets
dumped in the middle of the river.

Wes Folkerth

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[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Evett <
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Date:           Friday, 12 Feb 1999 11:55:01 -0500
Subject: 10.0241 Re: Early Myth
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth

>I think it was Odysseus who was to wrestle Proteus into submission, to
>force him to return to his (prototypical?) shape.

Carol Barton needs to review Odyssey 4.365ff, where Menelaos, not
Odysseus, ambushes the sea god in the form of a seal, then hangs on for
dear life through a series of shifted shapes, until, exhausted, Proteus
talls the Spartan king what he needs to know to get back home from
Egypt. I must say none of this seems particularly relevant to the
original question.

Dave Evett

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Stephanie Hughes <
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Date:           Friday, 12 Feb 1999 11:07:32 +0000
Subject: 10.0241 Re: Early Myth
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth

>The buzzard told the monkey "You're choking me
>Release your hold and I'll set you free"
>The monkey looked the buzzard right dead in the eye
>And said "You're story's so touching, but it sounds like a lie"
>
>Straighten up and fly right . . .
>Cool down Daddy don't you blow your top

What a wonderful contribution! I'll bet this story comes from an
African-American folk source.

>>Yes, it was Antaeus who wrestled Hercules, not Proteus. Proteus was a
>>sea god who could change his shape at will, and apparently it was
>>Menelaus with whom he had a wrestling bout, though my source isn't
>>in-depth enough to resolve whether it included the god's refusal to let
>>the hero go. Sorry for the mistake.
>
>I think it was Odysseus who was to wrestle Proteus into submission, to
>force him to return to his (prototypical?) shape.
>
>Carol Barton

Odysseus sounds more like it than Menelaus. My source is a big general
American Illustrated History of the English language. They may have got
it wrong. I need to invest in a better mythology reference. I have
Robert Graves, but it's impossible to locate anything in it.

Stephanie Hughes

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <
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Date:           Friday, 12 Feb 1999 22:57:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 10.0241 Re: Early Myth
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0241 Re: Early Myth

In the beginning of the Odyssey, Telemachus visits Menaelaus to get away
from the suitors beseting Penelope. Menelaus tells him the tale of his
return from Troy, which includes the Proteus story.  After being blown
to Egypt by an unfriendly wind and stuck without wind, Menelaus learns
that Proteus can restore the wind if the Greeks succeed in holding him
until he changes into his true form. The similarity of the tales of
Menalaus with the incidents of Odysseus' voyage have led some to
conclude that there where several versions of the Odyssey around that
Homer conflated by assigning some adventures to Menelaus.

Clifford Stetner
CUNY
 

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