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Home :: Archive :: 1999 :: March ::
Re: Fool; Harfleur; HS; Quill; Sins; Cosby; MST3K
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0402  Monday, 8 March 1999.

[1]     From:   Clifford Stetner <
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        Date:   Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 23:34:50 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0373 A Fool Question

[2]     From:   David Evett <
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        Date:   Friday, 05 Mar 1999 18:14:26 -0500
        Subj:   Henry V at Harfleur

[3]     From:   Robin Hamilton <
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        Date:   Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 09:35:20 -0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0354 Re: High School Shakespeare

[4]     From:   Clifford Stetner <
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        Date:   Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 23:30:10 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: Quill

[5]     From:   Roger Schmeeckle <
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        Date:   Sunday, 7 Mar 1999 14:53:53 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: 7 Deadly Sins

[6]     From:   Mike Jensen <
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        Date:   Friday, 05 Mar 1999 16:17:31 -0800
        Subj:   SHK 10.0382 Re: Cosby

[7]     From:   Martin Jukovsky <
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        Date:   Friday, 5 Mar 1999 22:57:35 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0377 "HAMLET" on MST3K?


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <
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Date:           Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 23:34:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 10.0373 A Fool Question
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0373 A Fool Question

>But the word 'pazzo' appears in literary documents since late XIII cent.
>Dante too uses it .
>
>I wonder if any of you on the list knows if in continental Europe of
>XII-XIII cent. there was a name for popular or courtier jesters  that
>may be linked to  'patch' or 'pazzo'.
>
>Thank you for your *patience*
>L.Anna S.

I suppose this is the origin of the term: "patsy?" (e.g. Lee Harvey
Oswald) I can only speculate, but it seems to me likely that the English
took the term "patch" from the Italian stage and simply began
associating it with the fool's costume.  I don't think the English patch
as a piece of cloth necessarily sheds any light on the Italian word's
original etymology.

Clifford Stetner
CUNY
York College
C.W. Post College

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Evett <
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Date:           Friday, 05 Mar 1999 18:14:26 -0500
Subject:        Henry V at Harfleur

Henry's speech to the citizens of Harfleur emphasizes the rape of their
wives and daughters should the English take the town by force.
Practically, this seems to me only a reflection of early modern (and
contemporary) military military realities: soldiers in conquered towns
behaved this way, and once they got inside the walls (of individual
houses as well as the town as a whole), with the able-bodied men dead or
in flight, they were almost impossible to bring under control until they
had acted out their excitement, anger, relief, contempt for women,
contempt for foreigners, general horniness, and so on.  Whereas if the
town surrenders the troops are reorganized, and most of them kept
outside the city, under their officers' control, so that the looting and
raping and destruction can be minimized. This is a topos from Homer on.
Rhetorically, it is the single most powerful appeal he can make (though
seconded by threats of the physical destruction of the town). He
anticipates it in his speech to the French ambassador in 1.2.  If it
works, it saves a lot of lives, English as well as French, preserving
the first city he comes to in the country he calls "my France".

David Evett

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <
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Date:           Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 09:35:20 -0000
Subject: 10.0354 Re: High School Shakespeare
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0354 Re: High School Shakespeare

>As for readers in other countries, how about some political parallels
>elsewhere than the USA?

Antony and Cleopatra as New Labour-Tony Blair = Octavius; John Prescott
= Enobarbus; Mo Mowlam = Cleopatra (a little strained?); Robin Cook as
Antony; Cleopatra's attendants as the New Labour parliamentary
claque....

Robin Hamilton

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <
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Date:           Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 23:30:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject:        Re: Quill

>The double negative was (like the split infinitive) a perfectly
>acceptable grammatical form, operating (as in Greek) as an intensifier.
>The Infant Grammarians, however, chose Latin rather than Greek as their
>model to 'describe' English, and so deemed it illicit.  For once they
>won, against common accepted usage.

How interesting.  But what is the rule for double negatives in Germanic
languages?

How about Old English?

Clifford Stetner
CUNY
York College

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Roger Schmeeckle <
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Date:           Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject:        Re: 7 Deadly Sins

On Saturday, 6 Mar 1999 
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  wrote:

>I am interested in your remark that Shakespeare may have written his seven
>great tagedies with one of the seven deadly sins in mind.  Was this a product
>of your own interpretation or is it published?  And which deadly sins are
>associated with which play?  Thank you very much.
>
>Kenneth Requa


This is my own insight, if that is the proper word to use.  I regard it
as a hypothetical insight, to be tested and offered for consideration
and possible refutation.

The correspondences are as follows, some of them very obvious: Macbeth,
avarice; Hamlet, acedia or sloth; Lear, anger; Othello, envy; Anthony
and Cleopatra, lust; Coriolanus, pride; and Timon of Athens, gluttony.

A few observations:  The number of the sins sometimes varied, but, so
far as I can tell, more or less settled on the seven above.  It is not
argued that the plays are morality plays, although the influence of
morality plays would have been operative; the only one that gave me any
trouble in fitting it into the scheme was Timon of Athens, which seems a
catch-all for the author's misanthropy, but it does begin with Timon as
popular because of the feasting he provides his supposed friends.

I have never seen or heard of anyone else having noticed this and would
be very interested to learn about it if such is the case.

Another question that has occurred to me is why the above plays are
referred to as tragedies.  So far as I know, Shakespeare did not refer
to them as such.  They were published as tragedies, distinguished from
comedies and histories.  I do not think it is appropriate to think of
them as tragedies, at least in the Greek sense of the term.  I would
welcome anyone pointing out any errors in my thinking, for I make no
claim to being a scholar.  I do love Shakespeare, and I think about what
I read.

     Roger Schmeeckle

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mike Jensen <
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Date:           Friday, 05 Mar 1999 16:17:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Cosby
Comment:        SHK 10.0382 Re: Cosby

Another Cosby guess, the 44 "plays" are the 37 traditional, KINSMEN, and
the usual poems.  The script writer consulted his/her old college
Riverside, counted the major works, and didn't think it through.  Does
that hold up as a speculation, or did I miscount?  (I don't have a
Riverside here.)

Dreadful show, BTW.  Badly acted.  Slack direction.  Little energy.
Heart in the right place.  A very funny line about Wilt Chamberlain.  I
wonder if every episode is that bad?

The following is from my amazing Uncle:

>MP!J:

>Assuming that your subscription to Archaeology magazine has expired, you
>might be interested in an article in the issue for March/April 1999;
>summarizing preliminary excavations at the site of the (Irish) "Castle of
>the Fairie Queene".

>The home of Edmund Spencer, (characterized as "the greatest of Elizabethan
>poets,"...(hey...don't argue with me...take the matter up with the author
>of the article.)

>Good coverage of building methods and materials of the age...along with
>more trivial, small object, details of an age that is mostly remembered for
>its large...stuff.  A nice portrait of Spencer is featured.

>Check pages 48-52.  Also, a too-concise-to be-interesting abstract is
>carried at web site:
> www.archaeology.org

>Regards.
M/Unc.

[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Martin Jukovsky <
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Date:           Friday, 5 Mar 1999 22:57:35 -0500
Subject: 10.0377 "HAMLET" on MST3K?
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0377 "HAMLET" on MST3K?

There are at least two German film versions of HAMLET.  DER REST IS
SCHWEIGEN (THE REST IS SILENCE) (1959), directed by Helmut Kautner, is
set in a modern business environment.  HAMLET (1960), directed by Franz
Peter Wirth, stars Maximillian Schell, and is on a bare set with actors
dressed in minimal black costumes.

Martin Jukovsky
Cambridge, Mass.


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