1999

Re: Training

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0903  Wednesday, 26 May 1999.

From:           Tal Carawan, Jr. <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 14:22:19 -0400
Subject: 10.0894 Training
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0894 Training

Hello, Sarah (and all, as this be my first message on the forum)....

An interesting question! I suspect there will be some disagreement (I'm
hoping for some so I can learn as well), but I'll venture a humble
opinion from my perspective as a working actor in the US. (and sometimes
I'm even paid....but not to digress...)

If I could venture out at your age from your part of the world, willing
to travel round the world, and I were full tilt on classical acting
education, I'd look into what Oxford and the Royal Shakespeare Company
might offer.  This may seem obvious, but why not start there?  I just
met a young actress at an audition last night who just returned from
spending some time in London.  She said it was quite affordable to see a
variety of plays, especially at student rates, but there was a lot of
bad stuff in with a lot of good stuff.  Anyway, I'm sure there are
several good sources of classical training there, and what better place
to learn about the Bard?

As I'm a tad older, and in N. Virginia, I look to what courses the
Shakespeare Theatre in Washington, DC, will have.  This is a working
professional theater with outstanding productions, and many classes are
taught by the resident actors. I recently completed a workshop with
Edward Gero (who also teaches at a local university) and learned quite a
lot.  I hope to study further, both at the Shakespeare Theater, and with
Prof. Gero.

I favor classes and workshops taught by working actors and directors,
vs. those from a more academic setting.  In the US, there are groups
such as Shakespeare and Company that offer full time study, and the
Shenandoah Shakespeare Express, which offers a total one year immersion
by performing many parts in many plays as part of a travelling company.
Ah, but to be in my early 20s once again, I'd pursue this latter route!
There seems to be nothing better to experiencing the full time Ren
actor's life.  Little money, food and lodging as they come, but lots and
lots of performances!    I love to learn by doing-auditioning,
rehearsing, and performing.  I like to think of my directors as my best
instructors; along with the text itself...

There are many good programs of acting instruction I've not gone into; I
haven't even mentioned my alma mater, Florida State University...well,
now I have! Perhaps others will volunteer info?  What is PTTP? And keep
us posted, Sarah...break a leg!

Tal Carawan, Jr.

[Editor's Note: There is also the new MFA Program in Classical Acting
offered jointly by the Shakespeare Theatre and George Washington
University.  -Hardy]

Various Hamlet and Ophelia

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0902  Wednesday, 26 May 1999.

[1]     From:   Carol Barton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 May 1999 13:14:04 EDT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0899 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

[2]     From:   Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: Hamlet's esitating

[3]     From:   Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

[4]     From:   Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: Ophelia


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Carol Barton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 13:14:04 EDT
Subject: 10.0899 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0899 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

Fort en bras, gentlemen, strong in arms-fort en brah, not fort in
BRASS!!!  (Besides-neither of them sounds the least bit, proleptically
or otherwise, like "Wynton Marsalis"!!

Carol Barton

>>Meanwhile,
>>what do you make of the fact that Fortinbras's name offers a proleptic
>>link to the greatest jazz trumpeter of our century?
>>
>>T. Hawkes

>Surely every jazz trumpeter ever would like to think he had a such a
>mouth?  Wouldn't a better reference be to Ulysses in T&C-"Time
>proleptically hath a [satchel] on his back"-or am I missing something?

>Perplexed In His Works,
>Robin Hamilton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:        Re: Hamlet's esitating

Lucia wrote:

>Claudius is showed ready, though his praying, to be sent to
>hell. Thus all too logical or too formal reasonings about souls'
>destiny are showed fool.

Unfortunately, I so don't understand what you mean by 'soul'.

Lucia, how does your distinction between heaven and hell reflect on the
exchange between Hamlet and Polonius:

P: Will you go out into the air?
H: Into my grave?
P: (Aside)Into air the grave is into the grave..."

>From the last remark, I am inclined to think P is the one who is
>insane, though not mad.

If we allow 'heaven' is 'air' and 'hell' is 'grave' must we not identity
'body' and 'soul'?

Yours in the light,
Dana

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:        Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

Robin thanks for finding your way through my numerous spelling errors.
Time being so precious I seldom edit.

Robin wrote:

>>From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
>>
>>only one man has
>>ever "conceived", that being Zeus to "conceived" Minerva of his
>>mind.

>Oh, dear, what about Sin from Satan's head (admittedly an echo of Z&M)
>in PARADISE LOST?
..."

Are you suggesting that Milton influenced Shakespeare?

I was trying to note that the Minerva influence was conspicuous by
absence in S.

I will try to follow your clues about Bruno, Pico, and Ficino.

As for your reference to Sydney, I believe that a Polar pair may be made
of Sydney's Arcadia and Seymour's Shepard's calendar, which refers to
the Shepard's of Arcardia archetype.

I don't want to bore any one rehashing the work of Henry Lincoln from
Holy Blood Holy Grail; however, I use the Flammel work in my alchemical
research which helps one derive the Florence influences by a French path
to the Paris heresy trials following the condemnation of 1277.

As a question of influence, even in the case of Bruno, Ficino, and Pico,
there is nothing new under the sun.

Yours in the truth,
Dana

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 11:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:        Re: Ophelia

You wrote:

>Has anyone mentioned that the fact that she is carrying the
>'remembrances' when Hamlet bumps into her is itself an element in
>making him suspicious?

My reading of the scene in question is that she returns some token which
"accompanied" his words.  This does not rule a necklace brooch or ring
which she might have worn at all times.

Yours in the way,
Dana

Pages

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0900  Wednesday, 26 May 1999.

From:           Jack Heller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 07:29:42 PDT
Subject:        Pages

>We need a book about pages.
>
>Frank Whigham

Adding to the reference pile on pages, I submit these:

From Middleton's prose satire, The Black Book, his sequel to Nashe's
Pierce Penniless, we have the "nest of gallants" who "keep at every heel
a man, beside a French lacquey (a great boy with a beard) and an English
page, which fills up the place of an ingle."

About Gull, the page or "hench boy" for Jack Dapper in The Roaring Girl:

Sir Thomas: Thou hadst a sweet-faced boy, hail-fellow with thee to our
little Gull: how is he spent?
Jack Dapper: Troth I whistled the poor little buzzard off o' my fist
because when he waited upon me at the ordinaries, the gallants hit me i'
the teeth still and said I looked like a painted alderman's tomb, and
the boy at my elbow, like a death's head.  (5.1.24-30).

And finally, again from The Roaring Girl, this little rendezvous between
Sebastian and Mary Fitzallard in disguise, with Moll Cutpurse in
attendance:

Enter Sebastian with Mary Fitzallard like a page and Moll [dressed as a
man].
Sebastian: Thou hast done me a kind office, without touch/ Either of sin
or shame: our loves are honest.
Moll: I'd scorn to make such shift to bring you together else.
Sebastian: Now have I time and opportunity/ Without all fear to bid thee
welcome, love.    Kiss[es Mary].
Mary: Never with more desire and harder venture!
Moll: How strange this shows, one man to kiss another.
Sebastian: I'd kiss such men to choose, Moll;/ Methinks a woman's lip
tastes well in a doublet.       [4.1.39-47]

Pages can be written on pages.

Jack Heller

Re: Chooseth

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0901  Wednesday, 26 May 1999.

From:           Ed Taft <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 May 1999 10:53:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:        Chooseth

It's true enough, as Brian Haylett observes, that Portia uses the word
"hazard" with all three suitors, but it's not at all clear that she
wants to help all three. Isn't Portia dismayed at the prospect of having
to marry either Morocco or Aragon? Doesn't she say of Morocco, "Let all
of his complexion choose me so" (2.7.79)? Aragon may also be
dark-complected too, by the way. Some editors try to "gloss over" this
problem by asserting that the word "complexion" actually means
personality or temperament, but that seems special pleading in the
extreme to me.

It could be argued, however, that Brian is right and that Portia is
trying to be fair, despite her own inclinations, by giving the same clue
to all three. A lot depends on what the reader thinks of Portia. My
view, for what it's worth, is that she is willing and able to bend the
rules to get what she wants, either in the casket scene or in the trial
scene.  After all, as Fitzgerald pointed out about Tom and Daisy, isn't
that the way old money thinks?

--Ed Taft

Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 10.0899  Tuesday, 25 May 1999.

[1]     From:   Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Monday, 24 May 1999 12:56:22 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

[2]     From:   Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Monday, 24 May 1999 13:02:06 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

[3]     From:   Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Monday, 24 May 1999 13:58:03 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 24 May 1999 12:56:22 +0100
Subject: 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

>From:           Terence Hawkes <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

>Meanwhile,
>what do you make of the fact that Fortinbras's name offers a proleptic
>link to the greatest jazz trumpeter of our century?

Surely every jazz trumpeter ever would like to think he had a such a
mouth?  Wouldn't a better reference be to Ulysses in T&C-"Time
proleptically hath a [satchel] on his back"-or am I missing something?

Perplexed In His Works,
Robin Hamilton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 24 May 1999 13:02:06 +0100
Subject: 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

>For a poetic turn, however, I am reminded of the poem Love's
>Alchemy by
> John Donne, where he asks "be it true that if my valet can bear the
> performance of a bridegroom's pride that he can be as happy as I".

>Dana

Strictly:

        Ends love in this, that my man,
Can be as happy'as I can; if he can
Endure the short scorne of a Bridegroomes play?

-- Dana's substitution of valet for man irresistibly calls to mind the
Montaigne source (via Florio) from which Donne probably lifted these
lines.

Thus pigs hunt truffles, as for things forgot --
We find not what they would, but what we ought.

Robin Hamilton

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 24 May 1999 13:58:03 +0100
Subject: 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine
Comment:        Re: SHK 10.0890 Re: Hamlet, the secret doctrine

 > From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

>only one man has
>ever "conceived", that being Zeus to "conceived" Minerva of his
>mind.

Oh, dear, what about Sin from Satan's head (admittedly an echo of Z&M)
in PARADISE LOST?

>Shakespeare would certainly have been familiar with the
>archetype of
>Minerva as higher mind from the influence of the Florentine
>Neo-Platonists, Pico and Ficino.

As far as I know, apart from some rather undocumented remarks in John
Vynaver (sp?) 's two books, the only published documentation of a link
between Pico della Mirandola and Shakespeare is a Notes and Queries
article published in the nineteen forties.  Have I missed something?  --
"certainly have been familiar with"-huh?

>Owen Barfield considers Frances yets
>the authority on this influence in Elizabethean literature and
>I defer.

Yates, surely, and the deference due to the Dame is arguable.

>however, in the
>Elizabethan period it is most likely that Shakespeare absorbed
>these
>ideas from the Polar-logic of Giordano Bruno, who is in a line
>from Pico and Ficino.

Exactly which texts of Bruno would he have known?  There are
demonstrable texts of Pico which would have been available to
Shakespeare, a more dubiously arguable case for Ficino-but Bruno?

Or maybe Sidney didn't die in the Netherlands, and/or passed on his
Bruno MSS to Bill ...

Yeah ....

Robin Hamilton

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