2001

Re: Thomas Lodge's Rosalynde

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0693  Wednesday, 21 March 2001

From:           Alberto Cacicedo <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday 20 Mar 2001 23:34:22 -0500
Subject: 12.0670 Thomas Lodge's Rosalynde
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.0670 Thomas Lodge's Rosalynde

> Friends, see if you like the new online text of Thomas Lodge's
> Rosalynde, now accessible at
> <http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/lodge/lodge1.html>.

This is a splendid text.  A vote of thanks to Prof. Bear for this and
all the other works he has made available on line.

Re: Stewart to do TV Texas "Lear"

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0692  Wednesday, 21 March 2001

From:           Paul E. Doniger <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday 20 Mar 2001 20:04:23 -0800
Subject: Stewart to do TV Texas "Lear"
Comment:        SHK 12.0661 Stewart to do TV Texas "Lear"

While I applaud the idea of Stewart as Lear, and the idea of another
film of Lear, the 'Wild West' concept isn't so new. There's a 1954
Spencer Tracy film called _Broken Lance_ which is loosely based on Lear.

Paul E. Doniger

Re: Kermode (Tempest Reference)

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0690  Wednesday, 21 March 2001

From:           Clifford Stetner <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 20:13:53 -0500
Subject: 12.0655 Re: Kermode (Tempest Reference)
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.0655 Re: Kermode (Tempest Reference)

> > I agree with Larry Weiss that his use of geographical accuracy to argue
> > against a colonialist discourse in the Tempest, and by extension, all
> > post colonialist readings and all historicist readings of Renaissance
> > lit, is unsupportable.
>
> Did I say that?  Geez!  I shall be more careful in future.

Sorry Larry:

I took this:

>for thematic
>purposes such a prosaic and well-known locale just doesn't fit.
>Prospero's island, with its pre-verbal demi-human native, elemental
>spirits, etc., would not be in an area settled since at least the
>Phoenicians.  We are familiar with WS's cavalier treatment of time when
>different chronologies suit the action (as in Othello); perhaps the
>geographical equivalent can be called "double space."

to refute the point that Kermode heavily relied on, that the
geographical location of the island was not consistent with new world
colonialism.  He seemed to me to be using one "single space" reading to
refute another, and this was supposed to invalidate all post colonialist
readings.  I should not have imputed these implications to you or the
further implication he tried to draw from it that Shakespeare should not
be read politically at all.

I guess my disclaimer wasn't sufficient. Trying to respond to requests
for eyewitness accounts, I wasn't able to read the mass of posts
carefully enough.

Clifford Stetner
CUNY
http://phoenix.liu.edu/~cstetner/cds.html

Re: Tragic Hero

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0691  Wednesday, 21 March 2001

From:           Paul E. Doniger <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 19:58:39 -0800
Subject:        Re: Tragic Hero

Mari Bonomi, in responding to my comment "that Julius Caesar is really
about Brutus, despite its title"  added that "Shakespeare is in good
company: the play we call Antigone today is the tragedy of Creon, not of
Antigone... but I guess "Creon's Downfall" doesn't cut it as a title
either <wry smile>."

I have to admit to being somewhat ambivalent on this question. I
generally think of Antigone as the "tragic hero(ine)," rather than
Creon; however, I do sometimes think that perhaps I am wrong after all
(especially when I look at Anouilh's version of the play. Then again, I
find myself turning back to Antigone, who does suffer death for her
"failure" to compromise her principles (in the original, a religious
principle). Perhaps it is a play with two tragic heroes. Perhaps the
real hero is an idea: the courage of one's convictions, or some such
thing.

Is there anything like this in Shakespeare? I can't think of a play,
outside perhaps _Anthony & Cleopatra_ with two tragic heroes.

Paul E. Doniger

Re: Mark Twain

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0689  Wednesday, 21 March 2001

[1]     From:   Takashi Kozuka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 21:55:31
        Subj:   Re: Mark Twain

[2]     From:   Tom Dale Keever <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 19:11:59 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment

[3]     From:   Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 21 Mar 2001 13:44:05 +1100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Takashi Kozuka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 21:55:31
Subject:        Re: Mark Twain

This isn't an answer to the 'same name' enquiry Charles posted. (Sorry,
Charles!)

Norrie Epstein's Friendly Shakespeare (1993) has the following passage
from Twain. Unfortunately, she doesn't identify her source (so her book
is not really friendly). (If any SHAKSPERean knows it, please let me
know!) I thought I should cite it on here, as I think this is
Shakespeareanly witty as well as cynical.

"I feel that our fetish [with Shakespeare] is safe for three centuries
yet.  The bust too -- there in the Stratford Church. The precious bust,
the calm bust, the serene bust, the emotionless bust, with the dandy
mustache and the putty face, unseamed of care -- the face which looked
passionlessly down upon the awed pilgrims for a hundred and fifty years
and will still look down upon the awed pilgrims three hundred more, with
the deep, deep, deep, subtle, subtle, subtle, expression of a bladder."

Takashi Kozuka
PhD Student
Centre for the Study of the Renaissance
University of Warwick (UK)
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Tom Dale Keever <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 20 Mar 2001 19:11:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment

Charles Edelman asks

>Can anyone locate a source for the comment attributed to Mark Twain,
>that Shakespeare did not write the plays, 'they were written by someone
>else of the same name'?

>It does NOT appear in the essay, 'Is Shakespeare Dead?' -- and I wonder
>if the saying is apocryphal rather than genuine.

I first heard this "generico-eponymic paradox," as Tanaka Tomoyuki calls
it, from my Greek instructor, Prof. Seaman, who employed it on Homer,
not Shakespeare.  I doubt he invented it.  It has been applied to both
writers over the years and I suspect the attribution to Twain is an
inevitable accretion since it sounds so much like something he might
have said.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 21 Mar 2001 13:44:05 +1100
Subject: 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.0667 Mark Twain's 'same name' Comment

> Can anyone locate a source for the comment attributed to Mark Twain,
> that Shakespeare did not write the plays, 'they were written by someone
> else of the same name'?
>
> It does NOT appear in the essay, 'Is Shakespeare Dead?' -- and I wonder
> if the saying is apocryphal rather than genuine.

I always thought the remark was made of Homer (who was being
'disintegrated' by scholarship long before Shakespeare).

Peter L. Groves

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