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Home :: Archive :: 2001 :: September ::
Re: Winters Tale
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.2119  Thursday, 6 September 2001

[1]     From:   Robin Hamilton <
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        Date:   Wednesday, 5 Sep 2001 19:33:53 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.2107 Re: Winters Tale

[2]     From:   Rainbow Saari <
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        Date:   Thursday, 6 Sep 2001 06:43:47 +1200
        Subj:   Re; Winter's tale


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <
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Date:           Wednesday, 5 Sep 2001 19:33:53 +0100
Subject: 12.2107 Re: Winters Tale
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.2107 Re: Winters Tale

> From:           Clifford Stetner <
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To cut into this somewhat sideways ...

_The Winter's Tale_ is temporily and geographically decentred (the
seacoast of Bohemia and he who betrayed the best co-existing in the same
platform as Jupiter's Oracle).

The Autolycus joke is that Auto could have wandered in off the streets
outside the theatre, as Stevie Gamble points out at great length.
Making him into a Green Man figure or a fertility deity isn't a joke,
it's a nonsense.

> I've read Frazier, Robinson, Gaster, etc. etc., and the upshot is that
> there is much more lost than preserved of the nature of pre Christian
> deities.  The Green Knight probably has his origins in a fertility god,
> not to mention Freia and probably even Arthur, while the monoliths and
> standing stones all over England probably hearken back to an ithyphallic
> fertility religion.

The Green Knight was being kicked around as a fertility symbol in the
sixties (which, if my mathematics are accurate, was about forty years
ago) and the idea was dubious even then.

[And as an aside, where does Mr Stetner stand on the Gawain poems?  I
assume Patience and Cleanliness are ruled out, but do we still have
"Gawain was written by the author of Pearl"?  I ask in all innocence.]

As to those standing henges ... I've been around much of Britain, and I
still have to meet Obelix carting one around.  Other than StoneHenge.
Please don't over-generalise.

> Venus and Adonis are evidence that Shakespeare was
> familiar with the nature of pre Christian fertility religions.

If I could make the least sense of this, I'd deal with it.  As it is,
given that the statement is a non-seqitur erected on an idiocy, I think
I'll just leave it to make its point for itself.

> The
> fairies of Midsummer Night's Dream spend half their time stimulating
> human intercourse. The Lupercalia at the beginning of Julius Caesar is a
> fertility ritual. And Shakespeare may well have known that Whitsuntide
> and Sheepshearing festivals were held on occasions devoted to pagan
> worship in pre Christian times during which both the above mentioned
> trio and Florizel and Perdita are hotly courting.  Let me know when
> Beavis and Butthead do Hamlet (no pun intended).

Oh DEAR ... Maybe Richart Burt would like to take up the Beavis and
Butthead point?  As it is, may I just thank Mr Stetner for the generous
hilarity he's provided for the time I've been on this list.

My favoured log-on is to check Doonsbury, Fred Basset and Garfield.
Then Clifford.  Admittedly, Mister Stetner doesn't do graphics yet.  In
time?

Robin Hamilton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Rainbow Saari <
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Date:           Thursday, 6 Sep 2001 06:43:47 +1200
Subject:        Re; Winter's tale

Shakespeare was certainly not the only dramatist of his time to exploit
the ribald associations of pins, with their propensity for pricking, and
poking sticks. In Thomas Dekker's 'Satiromastix' ( 1601 ), conversation
between the Widow Miniver and her suitors, Sir Rees ap Vaughan and Sir
Adam Prickshaft ( a name with its own share of pin punning ) includes
the following;

Miniver;    Ther's the yawning Captaine... would one day needes perswade
me, that love was a Rebato; and his reason was ( saving your reverence
)  that a Rebato was worn out with pinning too often; and so he said
love was.

Sir Vaughan;  And Master Captaine Tucca sayd wisely too, love is a
Rebato indeede; a  Rebato must be poaked; now many women weare Rebatoes,
and many that  weare Rebatoes---

Sir Adam Prickshaft;   Must be poakt.

Sir Vaughan;    Sir Adam Prickshaft has hit the cloute.

Cheers,
Rainbow

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