The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.2178 Friday, 14 September 2001
From: John Ramsay <
Date: Thursday, 13 Sep 2001 12:47:13 -0400
Subject: 12.2153 Re: Socrates
Comment: Re: SHK 12.2153 Re: Socrates
> Don Bloom correctly points out that Socrates was probably guilty of the
> sedition he was accused of. But Don then makes the same sort of mistake
> he corrects by asserting that the difference in political views between
> Socrates and the dominant Athenians
> > wouldn't have mattered had it not been for the catastrophic failure of
> > the Pelopennesian War.
> Surely, whether any war is a success or a failure depends on which side
> one favors. But this one ended with the deaths of both Cleon and
> Brasias and the Peace of Nicias, which would have been to the advantage
> of both Athens and Sparta had Alcibiades not thwarted it. In what way
> was the war a "catastrophic failure" except in that neither Cleon nor
> Brasias succeeded in dominating the entire Aegean?
The Peloponnesian War was a catastrophic failure for Athens and the
Unfortunately Athenian hybris played a part.
In the longer run the war did not do Sparta much good either.
Either read or re-read 'The Last of the Wine' by Mary Renault for what
it all meant in human terms.
In concrete terms Athens was forced to dismantle its twin seawalls to
The modern day parallel is all too obvious.
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