Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 2001 :: July ::
Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.1719  Monday, 9 July 2001

[1]     From:   Dana Shilling <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Sunday, 8 Jul 2001 10:39:25 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals

[2]     From:   David Bishop <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Sunday, 8 Jul 2001 14:14:32 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals

[3]     From:   Larry Weiss <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Sunday, 08 Jul 2001 16:08:01 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Shilling <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Sunday, 8 Jul 2001 10:39:25 -0400
Subject: 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals

Paul E. Doniger said:

>Perhaps I was hasty in referring to the deaths of Laertes and Gertrude
>as 'murder' (one could even argue that Gertrude's death is a suicide).
>Would you not agree, at least, that Claudius is exposed as being
>partially responsible for these deaths? Perhaps in modern terms he might
>be found guilty in a case of wrongful death, had anyone survived to
>bring charges against him. At the very least, he is an accessory in the
>case.

I don't think he was the kind to waive sovereign immunity.

Dana Shilling

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Bishop <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Sunday, 8 Jul 2001 14:14:32 -0400
Subject: 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals

Paul Doniger's suggestion that the ghost is warning Hamlet against
revenge with "Taint not thy mind" is, to my mind, staggering. What then
did he mean by telling Hamlet to take revenge? And then in coming back
to tell him again? What is this whole play about?

The word "nor" on the other hand, though taken in a certain narrow way
would suggest a difference between the two commands, presents no real
problem.  This is a standard Shakespearean idiom. The second part is an
elaboration, or explanation of the first, and the nor is an intensifier.
The proof of this is that otherwise "Taint not thy mind" would be
unexplained, leaving us to speculate wildly, not to say madly, about a
ghost who suddenly is speaking, for four words, against revenge on
Claudius.

One might also think that Gertrude committed suicide, if one's only
access to the play was, say, Laurence Olivier's movie. Shakespeare, on
the other hand, shows Gertrude drinking from the cup and then offering
it to Hamlet, thereby making it perfectly clear that she does not know
the cup is poisoned.

Best wishes,
David Bishop

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Sunday, 08 Jul 2001 16:08:01 -0400
Subject: 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1712 Re: Hamlet's Clashing Ideals

Paul Doniger wrote:

>  In
> his comments to his son, the Ghost says, "Taint not thy mind, NOR let
> thy soul contrive / Against thy mother aught" (emphasis mine). That
> little word, 'nor', suggests a shift in thought from one idea to a
> different (almost opposite) idea.

A good point; but I have always thought that the opposing ideas are the
nouns ("mind" and "soul") not the verbs ("taint" and "contrive"),

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, 
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 
The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu>
 

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.