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Home :: Archive :: 2001 :: July ::
Re: Squeaking Cleopatras
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.1816  Friday, 20 July 2001

[1]     From:   Dana Shilling <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 09:31:16 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

[2]     From:   Karen Peterson-Kranz <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 11:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

[3]     From:   Fran Barasch <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 18:05:58 EDT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

[4]     From:   Charles Edelman <
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        Date:   Friday, 20 Jul 2001 07:59:57 +8/00
        Subj:   Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Shilling <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 09:31:16 -0400
Subject: 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

Terence Hawkes said:

> Isn't it evident that 'Cinderella' is the down-market version of 'King
> Lear'?

OH NOT IT'S NOT!!!!

Dana Shilling

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Karen Peterson-Kranz <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 11:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

> Isn't it evident that 'Cinderella' is the down-
> market version of 'King Lear'?
>
> Terence Hawkes

The fairy tale that's REALLY like Lear is "Cap O' Rushes" (also with
strong Cinderella elements).  If anyone's interested, there's a rather
nice telling of the tale at:

http://www.belinus.co.uk/fairytales/JJFCapoRushes.htm

Cheers,
Karen

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Fran Barasch <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 Jul 2001 18:05:58 EDT
Subject: 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

Re "squeaking Cleopatras":  what if quite a different theatrical rival,
rather than (or as well as) the boy-actor, was the metatheatrical
reference on Shakespeare's mind?

The following is quoted from Marvin Rosenberg: "The verb 'to boy' then
carried a specific meaning of mockery and disrespect.  The OED cites,
along with Cleopatra's voicing, similar uses of the very by Grabriel
Harvey (1573) and then later by John Fletcher (1606) and Henry Moore
(1635).  All these, I found, were indeed mocking."

Cleopatra has just warned Iras: "Thou, an Egyptian puppet, shall be
shown in Rome AS WELL AS I" (emphasis mine).  The puppet's voice, then
as now, was made with a "pivetta" or "swazzle," a mouth instrument which
raises the pitch and makes the puppet voice squeak or screech.  The
rival puppet theater of the time presented improvised shows
("extemporally" staged) and regularly mocked historical and literary
heroines "I' th' posture of a whore." ("Painted puppet" was a common
metaphor for "whore." )   Try reading lines 207-21 as a single speech
(disregarding Iras's brief interjections), from "puppet" (208) to
"whore" (221) and see where that leaves us.

Best to all, Fran Barasch

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Charles Edelman <
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Date:           Friday, 20 Jul 2001 07:59:57 +8/00
Subject: 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras
Comment:        Re: SHK 12.1809 Re: Squeaking Cleopatras

> Isn't it evident that 'Cinderella' is the down-market version of 'King
> Lear'?
>
> Terence Hawkes

Up-market.

Charles Edelman,

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