January
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0121 Monday, 21 January 2002 From: John V. Knapp <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 13:55:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Claudius's Rhetoric Hello everyone -- For a quick reference, does anyone recall the cite where Wayne Booth discusses Claudius's rhetorical skills and polish. I've looked but can't locate it and need it ASAP. Thanks in advance, John V. Knapp _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0120 Monday, 21 January 2002 [1] From: Don Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 13:07:22 -0600 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago [2] From: Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 18:16:28 -0800 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago [3] From: Edmund Taft <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Sunday, 20 Jan 2002 14:31:50 -0500 Subj: Ancient Iago [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 13:07:22 -0600 Subject: 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago Comment: Re: SHK 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago Edmund Taft writes, > I disagree with Andy White's assertion that the provenance of the Ghost > has been made clear by 3.1. What has been proven is that the Ghost told > the truth about Hamlet, Sr.'s murder -- period. Where the Ghost comes > from and who he really is is still a mystery. Well, yes and no. On the one hand, it could not be much of a ghost if it weren't mysterious. WS presumably wrote about it the way he did in order to create an atmosphere of mystery and numinousness -- and the resulting terror in all who see it. On the other hand, the ghost tells Hamlet, "I am thy father's spirit, / Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night, / And for the day confin'd to fast in fires" of Purgatory. Of course, it might be lying. But on the one issue subject to verification, it is proved completely reliable. If we accept it more or less on its own terms, the play makes good sense. A terrible crime has been committed that has infected the entire body politic of Denmark. The country must be healed, and that can only be accomplished if justice is done and a rightful ruler installed in the sacred role of king. To get this done, the ghost has been sent to command Hamlet to do it -- even if doing it requires that justice take the form of the normally-forbidden revenge. I don't think Shakespeare cared if it was theologically or demonologically sound. He wanted "good theatre" and a story by which to develop character and theme. And he got it. In spades. Cheers, don [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 18:16:28 -0800 Subject: 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago Comment: Re: SHK 13.0105 Re: Ancient Iago Graham Bradshaw suggests that >there is >another, probably related question, which is thrown up later in the >dramatic sequence. Apparently--meaning, we only learn this >later!--Othello had chosen NOT to take Iago into his confidence during >the period of the secret wooing. Cassio was not just Othello's chosen >officer, but his chosen confidant. And yet in the first scene where we >see Othello with Iago, Othello is (suddenly?) speaking to Iago in an >unprecedentedly confidential ways: why? We don't know that Othello has never treated Iago as his confidant before, only that he treated Cassio as his confidant in wooing Desdemona. We do have evidence that they're old comrades. Perhaps Othello just didn't think that a senior non-com with (as we later see) a strong streak of misogyny wouldn't be the best person to ask about how to woo a senator's daughter. Cheers, Se
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0119 Monday, 21 January 2002 [1] From: Peter Hadorn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 12:04:24 -0600 Subj: RE: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series [2] From: Bruce Young <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 11:13:10 -0700 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series [3] From: Jack Heller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 13:55:59 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series [4] From: David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Saturday, 19 Jan 2002 12:40:08 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series [5] From: Graham Hall <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Sunday, 20 Jan 2002 21:22:54 +0000 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0079 Re: BBC Series [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hadorn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 12:04:24 -0600 Subject: 13.0110 Re: BBC Series Comment: RE: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series Regarding the BBC series, I can't resist putting in my two cents worth. My favorite of the ones I've seen is "The Taming of the Shrew." Most people I have talked to will dismiss it in favor of the Burton/Taylor/Zeffirelli film. But I had the advantage of seeing the BBC version first so I wasn't prejudiced by the gloss and high slap-stick of the film. I found Cleese's understated humor throughout (I have read that he intentionally wanted to do a version that contrasted with the Zeffirelli) quite hilarious. Rather than depending on broad comedy and melodrama, its approach to humor is nuanced and intelligent. It uses the "lines" to create the humor. I recommend it highly. I also feel it is my duty to warn any potential purchaser to stay far away from the "Romeo and Juliet" and I am surprised that no one has yet done so. The casting of the two leads was a tremendous blunder that sabotaged any merit the rest of the production might have. STAY AWAY! I have heard from several others that "Dream" is also very bad, but I haven't seen it myself. Regarding some others, in brief: I agree that "Measure" and "R2" are quite good. I was also pleasantly surprised by "Two Gentlemen." Unlike an earlier writer, I thought "Errors" was ok and not terrible. I was disappointed by "1 Henry IV" and "As You Like It." Plays that are worth seeing if you or a student need to see a version that is competent, though they definitely don't sparkle: "All's Well," "Coriolanus," "Winter's Tale," and "Troilus." Best, Peter Hadorn University of Wisconsin-Platteville [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bruce Young <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 11:13:10 -0700 Subject: 13.0110 Re: BBC Series Comment: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series As might be expected, I agree with some who've expressed their opinions and disagree with others. My favorites include Measure for Measure, Much Ado (though I admire Branagh's version, I prefer the BBC version of the scenes with Dogberry and the watch, and the other parts are good too), The Winter's Tale (despite a few quibbles--for instance, Perdita's not as strong as I'd like), and All's Well (I think the ending works quite well). I also like Othello (though it's been a while since I've seen it) and Hamlet (for the most part). Lear is OK--maybe I'm faint in my praise because I keep hoping for a really great version. And I remember being pleased with Coriolanus, Pericles, and Cymbeline (though my memory of the last two is fading). I don't care for what I've seen of As You Like It (I'm not sure I've seen it all the way through), and I remember feeling that Twelfth Night dragged rather badly. But I'm willing to be persuaded on either of these. I don't know most of the others well enough to comment on. Bruce Young [3]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Heller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 13:55:59 -0500 Subject: 13.0110 Re: BBC Series Comment: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series For those who have seen the BBC Othello, with Bob Hoskins as Iago, I'd be interested in knowing how his performance compares with his DeFlores in the filmed version of The Changeling occasionally appearing on the Bravo channel in the US. I have often thought DeFlores is much like Iago. Jack Heller [4]------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Saturday, 19 Jan 2002 12:40:08 -0500 Subject: 13.0110 Re: BBC Series Comment: Re: SHK 13.0110 Re: BBC Series I'd like to put in a plug for the BBC/Time-Life *Taming of the Shrew*, directed by the almost-always-interesting Jonathan Miller, with John Cleese as a thoughtful and understated Petruchio and Sarah Badel as a thirty-something Katherine whose anger at the inanity and repressiveness of her life chez Baptista Minola is reasonable in ways that help make sense of that final big speech. The low-key sets (which echo important early modern paintings from Paolo da Francesca through Georges de la Tour to Vermeer) support an approach to the play by way of the good old reason-passion axis. Doesn't resolve our modern difficulties with the patriarchal ideology, mind you, but does make a unusually coherent attempt to contain them. Very interesting contrast with Franco Zeffirelli's better-known wide-screen romp (*Taming of the Shrew the Movie*). Dave Evett [5]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Hall <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Sunday, 20 Jan 2002 21:22:54 +0000 Subject: 13.0079 Re: BBC Series Comment: Re: SHK 13.0079 Re: BBC Series [>...Wow! I am an absolute sucker for the Who!!! Has anyone seen this video? >How good or bad is Roger Daltrey as an actor?... ] In terms of good or bad I defer to Bob Dylan
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0118 Monday, 21 January 2002 [1] From: Mary Jane Miller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 11:31:23 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English [2] From: Jonathan Hope <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 17:24:56 +0100 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English [3] From: Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 12:29:36 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Jane Miller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 11:31:23 -0500 Subject: 13.0106 Re: Accents English Comment: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English Re Auntie or the Beeb's responsibility for standardised accents. In the late 60's I was doing research on BBC radio drama with the BBC's full cooperation. They included me in a 30 day course on radio production where producers in training were able to talk to the brass about many things. I in my Canadian colonial accent asked why outside of dramas by Pinter, Owen, Stoppard et al I didn't hear any regional accents on the air - except for the gardening show. I was told that whenever the BBC tried to use the rich variety of accents available they received stacks of letters protesting that the listener could not understand what was being said. Since I was taking the degree from Birmingham - though based in London where the BBC HQ is - that struck me as strange indeed. I had perforce learned to understand Brummagem within days of my arrival. The other thing about having a standard Canadian accent in Britain ( the majority of Canadians speak in the same accents as our broadcasters - we have few regional accents) which is still true is that no one can place you in terms of class, geography, education etc. Canadians will not pick up subtle cues of accents in British theatre, films and television. This means that in radio drama or in Shakespeare where the words are the work, information can be added or stripped away using local regional or national speech patterns. American and British directors have a wonderful resource in terms of varied accents we in Canada do not have. Mary Jane PS: It was argued in an early popular culture seminar at Birmingham by a guest lecturer who had looked at the question that decades of BBC standard speech had not had any measurable impact on regional or local speech at all. [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Hope <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 17:24:56 +0100 Subject: 13.0106 Re: Accents English Comment: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English As ever, those interested in early modern accents should begin with chapter 7 of Charles Barber's *Early Modern English* (2nd ed. 1997, Edinburgh UP and Columbia) which, like all of his stuff, is lucid and newcomer-friendly. As for present-day accents and their supposed qualities ('clarity', 'harshness', 'music' etc), numerous linguistic experiments have shown that attitudes to accents are wholly learned behaviour - they have nothing to do with the phonetic reality of the accents. It is not true, for example, that RP is inherently clearer or more easily understood than any other accent of English - rather its use by radio announcers meant that more people were exposed to it. There is a very nice counter-example to this canard in an early volume of the poet James Kirkup's autobiography (I think *The Only Child*) - he grew up in the north-east of England, and records the day a new teacher arrived in his school speaking RP. No one could understand her. Jonathan Hope Strathclyde University, Glasgow [3]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 12:29:36 -0500 Subject: 13.0106 Re: Accents English Comment: Re: SHK 13.0106 Re: Accents English Gabe Egan makes a lot of sense when he says, > Of course, one might say (and he probably has said) "I'm proud of my > accent" when really meaning "I'm not ashamed of it", and we can all > allow that slight imprecision. Likewise, it would be absurd to really > mean "I'm proud to be a woman" or "I'm proud to be a man" as though one > had striven to achieve this genetic state. But logic seldom correlates exactly with human behaviour. "Gay pride" and "black pride" activists and feminists, for example are not likely to acknowledge that they are only saying that they are not ashamed of being gay, black or female (or some combination). Instead of merely denying the bigoted slurs which have victimized them, they insist that they would not want to be straight, white or male, that it is better to be what they are -- that gays, blacks and women are in fact superior to others. And they illustrate their theses with instances, real or stereotyped, such as the supposed superior aesthetic taste of gay men. Black Studies programs justify their existence by finding and exaggerating cultural contributions of persons of African heritage or others who might be said to be such. (Try telling a Black Studies graduate that Cleopatra was Greek and see what reaction you get. -- Maybe Shakespeare is partly to blame for this.) This form of chauvinism, if expressed in a comparable way by heterosexuals, whites and men is called homophobia, racism and sexism. _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0117 Monday, 21 January 2002 [1] From: Don Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 14:26:21 -0600 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0113 Re: Symbolic Interpretation [2] From: Louis Swilley <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 09:57:25 -0600 Subj: Re: SHK 13.0113 Re: Symbolic Interpretation [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Friday, 18 Jan 2002 14:26:21 -0600 Subject: 13.0113 Re: Symbolic Interpretation (was Pregnant Comment: Re: SHK 13.0113 Re: Symbolic Interpretation (was Pregnant Gertrude) Martin Steward notes that it doesn't matter if the origin of some symbol or other aspect of a work of art has its basis in some accidental circumstance. The text (or picture) is there to be interpreted on what it appears to mean -- what it is "doing." Let me offer an anecdote. Years ago when I was TA and teaching freshman comp, I was discussing Frost's "Stopping by Woods" one day, and trying to get the students to see the overtones of death in his imagery. One student then said that he'd heard that Frost had said the poem wasn't about death, it was about stopping in the woods on snowy. I responded that, first, I'd have to see the source to be sure Frost actually said it. Second, I'd have to be sure he meant it, and wasn't just making an annoyed artist's response to a journalist