2002

Re: Tyrant's Bed 2

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0282  Thursday, 31 January 2002

[1]     From:   Nancy Charlton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 10:22:13 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[2]     From:   Alison Taufer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 13:37:00 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[3]     From:   Sophie Masson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 20:12:18 +1100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[4]     From:   David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 17:18:52 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[5]     From:   H. R. Greenberg <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 19:34:04 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[6]     From:   Brother Anthony <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 10:00:15 +0900
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[7]     From:   Michael McClintock <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 22:10:50 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Be

[8]     From:   Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 14:50:08 +1100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[9]     From:   Helen Vella-Bonavita <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 09:29:50 +0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Nancy Charlton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 10:22:13 -0800
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

>William Drummond of Hawthornden wrote that Ben Jonson, "cursed Petrarch
>for redacting verses to sonnets, which he said were like that tyrant's
>bed, where some who were too short were racked, others too long cut
>short." What exactly is the "tyrant's bed" and whence does the phrase
>come?

Procrustes, hence "Procrustean bed." I don't know any source, but I
would guess it's in Ovid somewhere. This "tyrant" made guests fit the
bed by the method described above. One way for a "tyrannos" to evolve
from being simply "king" to "tyrant."  A drastic metaphor to prove
Drummond's point.

Nancy Charlton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Alison Taufer
 <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 13:37:00 -0800
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Jonson's comment sounds like it may be an allusion to the Greek myth of
Procrustes.  Procrustes offers unwary travelers a bed for the night. If
the traveler is too tall, Procrustes cuts off the guest's legs until he
fits the bed.  If the traveler is too short, Procrustes stretches his
guest (as upon a rack) until he fits. Procrustes is a robber, not a
ruler, so I don't know if this is the story to which Jonson is
referring, although it seems like a possibility.

Alison Taufer

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sophie Masson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 20:12:18 +1100
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Does this perhaps refer to the myth of Procrustes?

Sophie Masson
Author site: http://www.northnet.com.au/~smasson

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 17:18:52 -0500
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Check your handbook or dictionary of mythology under Procrustes.

David Evett

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           H. R. Greenberg <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 19:34:04 EST
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

In case this hasn't been answered, I believe we are talking about the
Bed of Procrustes -- but I don't recall that he was a tyrant. I may have
him confused with someone else, but I seem to recall something about a
toll, which if one couldn't pay, you were forced onto the bed and   chop
chop or stretch stretch. The phrase has long since entered the
vernacular. I like it a lot.

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Brother Anthony <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 10:00:15 +0900
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Try looking up Procrustean in a dictionary or Procrustes (aka Damastes)
in a dictionary of mythology.

Brother Anthony
Sogang University, Seoul, Korea

[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael McClintock <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 22:10:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Jonson is thinking of Procrustes, who was, according to my Oxford
Companion to Classical Lit., "a legendary brigand of Eleusis, who used
to lay travellers on a bed, and if they were too long for it, cut short
their limbs; but if the bed was longer, stretch them to make their
length equal to it. He was killed by Theseus."

Michael McClintock
Trent University

[8]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 14:50:08 +1100
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

> William Drummond of Hawthornden wrote that Ben Jonson, "cursed Petrarch
> for redacting verses to sonnets, which he said were like that tyrant's
> bed, where some who were too short were racked, others too long cut
> short." What exactly is the "tyrant's bed" and whence does the phrase
> come?

You'll get a thousand replies to this, but it's the bed of Procrustes, a
bandit who stretched out his victims if they were too short for his bed
and lopped off extremities if they were too tall clearly a case of OCD).

Peter Groves

[9]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Helen Vella-Bonavita <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Jan 2002 09:29:50 +0000
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

The reference is to an extreme example of addressing body image issues
through plastic surgery...The bed belonged to Procrustes, who boasted
that his bed fitted all who lay upon it. He neglected to mention that
this was brought about either by stretching his victims on a rack or
alternatively pruning them to reach the correct length. He was
eventually killed on his own bed by Theseus on his way to Athens.

Helen Vella Bonavita
University of Wales, Lampeter

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Re: Tyrant's Bed 1

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0281  Thursday, 31 January 2002

[1]     From:   Paul Franssen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 17:46:14 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[2]     From:   Geralyn Horton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:05:37 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[3]     From:   Frank Whigham <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 11:09:46 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[4]     From:   Roy Flannagan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:06:11 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[5]     From:   David Knauer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 11:22:41 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[6]     From:   Mari Bonomi <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 13:02:54 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[7]     From:   Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 19:37:16 -0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[8]     From:   Markus Marti <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 18:34:20 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

[9]     From:   John V. Knapp <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:08:44 -0600 (CST)
        Subj:   Response to Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Paul Franssen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 17:46:14 +0100
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

If I may hazard a guess: the bed of Procrustes?

Paul Franssen
Utrecht University

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Geralyn Horton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:05:37 -0500
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

The giant Procrustes is the bed fellow, chopping and stretching his idea
of a joke.  Greek myth predates the rack, at least I hope so!
"Procrustean" is in every dictionary, and the story used to be common
coin, part of every kid's childhood.

Not so any longer, I gather?

Geralyn Horton
http://www.stagepage.org
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Frank Whigham <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 11:09:46 -0600
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Surely Procrustes? Here's the Britannica 2001 reference:

also called POLYPEMON, DAMASTES, OR PROCOPTAS, in Greek legend, a robber
dwelling somewhere in Attica--in some versions, in the neighbourhood of
Eleusis. His father was said to be Poseidon. Procrustes had an iron bed
(or, according to some accounts, two beds) on which he compelled his
victims to lie. Here, if a victim was shorter than the bed, he stretched
him by hammering or racking the body to fit. Alternatively, if the
victim was longer than the bed, he cut off the legs to make the body fit
the bed's length. In either event the victim died. Ultimately Procrustes
was slain by his own method at the hands of the young Attic hero
Theseus, who as a young man went about slaying robbers and monsters that
pervaded the countryside.

Frank Whigham

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Roy Flannagan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:06:11 -0500
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Try under "Procrustes."

Roy Flannagan

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Knauer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 11:22:41 -0600
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

The Greek legend of the robber Procrustes is the reference you want. He
had an iron bed on which he alternately stretched or hacked his victims
to make them fit. Extreme and untidy solutions are therefore known as
Procrustean.

Dave
(in no need of custom-tailoring)

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mari Bonomi <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 13:02:54 -0500
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Herewith a good simplified description of the myth of Procrustes... he
was one of Theseus' challenges.

http://www.mythweb.com/teachers/why/basics/procrustes.html

Mari Bonomi

[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 19:37:16 -0000
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

> William Drummond of Hawthornden wrote that Ben Jonson, "cursed Petrarch
> for redacting verses to sonnets, which he said were like that tyrant's
> bed, where some who were too short were racked, others too long cut
> short." What exactly is the "tyrant's bed" and whence does the phrase
> come?

Procrustes.

Robin Hamilton

[8]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Markus Marti <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 18:34:20 +0100
Subject: 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Procrustes - not exactly a tyrant, just a "robber" i.e. probably the
owner or manager of a Greek hotel. The tyrant Theseus spent a night
there. Beds have not improved in Greece since.

Sleep well,

Markus Marti
http://www.unibas.ch/shine/index.html

[9]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           John V. Knapp <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 12:08:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed
Comment:        Response to Re: SHK 13.0263 Tyrant's Bed

Joseph Tate --

The reference is to the "bed of Procrustes," (Polypemon) who had two
beds in his house, one long, the other short..  "Offering a night's
lodging to travelers, he would lay the short man on the large bed, and
rack them out to fit it;  but the tall men on the small bed, sawing off
as much of their legs as projected beyond it.  Some say he only used one
bed ... ."  Robert Graves, *The Greek Myths,* I, pp. 329-330.

Clearly, Holiday Inns have been an improvement since then.

Cheers,
JVK

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Don't let the discussion die during the SHAKSPER

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0279  Wednesday, 30 January 2002

From:           Amy Ulen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 29 Jan 2002 22:59:04 -0800
Subject:        Don't let the discussion die during the SHAKSPER move!

In preparation for the SHAKSPER move, I invite you all to visit the
Shakespeare High/Surfing with the Bard Discussion Zone at
http://www.shakespearehigh.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi.  Please
feel free to use the forums to continue your current discussions until
SHAKSPER is back on line.

Amy Ulen
http://www.ulen.com/shakespeare/

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

The SHAKSPER Move: Please Do Not Reply to Posts

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0280  Thursday, 31 January 2002

From:           Hardy M. Cook <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, January 31, 2002
Subject:        The SHAKSPER Move: Please Do Not Reply to Posts

Dear SHAKSPEReans,

Let me begin by saying that I ought to proof my own prose more carefully



Re: Twelfth Night at Middle Temple Hall

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0278  Wednesday, 30 January 2002

From:           Marcus Dahl <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Jan 2002 05:32:12 EST
Subject: 13.0251 Twelfth Night at Middle Temple Hall
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0251 Twelfth Night at Middle Temple Hall

>Rylance was rather subdued as Olivia, and held himself so stiffly I
>wondered if he had a neck injury.

Why don't they just get rid of Rylance? He ruins every performance he's
in.  Bring back the company that I saw at the Globe who performed having
learned only their 'parts' and were thoroughly entertaining as well as
being in the spirit of the original Globe's rough hewn theatricality.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Webpage <http://ws.bowiestate.edu>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Search

Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.