2002

Re: Pregnant Gertrude

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0061  Monday, 14 January 2002

From:           John Ramsay <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 11:52:19 -0500
Subject: 13.0040 Re: Pregnant Gertrude
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0040 Re: Pregnant Gertrude

> This is a superb opportunity to explore the side of Hamlet that is
> concerned about his own ambition, security and fortune.  If we assume
> that Claudius thinks the baby is his, then Hamlet is only "nearest to
> our throne" for a strictly limited time.
>
> Plenty of Hamlet's lines demonstrate a concern with being disinherited;
> not only the "popped between the election and my hopes", but also things
> like his reference to the proverb (which he leaves unfinished): "while
> the grass grows, the horse starves."  If you were to trawl the text with
> this in mind, I bet the catch would be abundant.
>
> Anna Kamaralli

If Claudius is the father of the child, then the child could only reign
via primogeniture in place of Hamlet.

But Hamlet did not succeed to the throne by the same method.

Therefore primogeniture was not in force in Denmark at that time.

You seem to be overlooking the word 'election'.

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Elizabethan Coins

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0060  Monday, 14 January 2002

From:           Sean Lawrence <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 15:07:47 -0800
Subject:        Elizabethan Coins

Dear all,

Following up the query about terms for British coins, I was wondering if
anyone could describe Elizabethan coins in terms of size.  I bought a
set of aluminum replicas of Elizabethan coins at The Globe the other
day, and apart from the penny, all of them have the Queen's image on one
side and the royal arms on the other.  The only difference is size:
which is which?  Is the one about the size of a Canadian or American
quarter (or 10p) a Shilling?

I wonder if the Elizabethans ever had trouble telling them apart.  Of
course, Americans seem to have no trouble telling their bills apart,
even though they're all the same colour.

By the way, Gabriel Egan notes that "Contrary to recent media coverage,
international standardization of money is not new."  Indeed it is not.
The Venetian ducat was recognized throughout most of Europe, though it's
value derived from the value of gold, an effective international
currency among European countries until the 20th century.  Of course, we
might also talk about hard liquor or cigarettes in the 1940s.

Just my 2


Re: T-Shirt Quotations

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0058  Monday, 14 January 2002

[1]     From:   Tanya Gough <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 13:43:01 -0500
        Subj:   T-Shirts

[2]     From:   Brian Willis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 11:16:22 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: T-Shirt Quotations


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Tanya Gough <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 13:43:01 -0500
Subject:        T-Shirts

>P.S.:  I have also seen the "Thus do I clothe my naked villainies"

This quotation was used for the Ian McKellen theatrical production of
Richard III which toured about a year or two before the 1995 film's
release.

The shirt is done up like a rock music tour shirt on the back.

Tanya Gough
Poor Yorick
www.bardcentral.com

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Brian Willis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 11:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject:        Re: T-Shirt Quotations

Upon sitting down to read King Lear again the other day(God bless John
Keats), I felt that the play yields a great number of t-shirt
quotations. A few that I really like:

*Come not between the dragon and his wrath.

*Now gods, stand up for bastards!

*All with me's meet that I can fashion fit.

And just because it's one of my favorite quotes in all of Shakespeare:

*Thou whoreson Z, thou unnecessary letter.

Oh alright, Kent is a comedian in that scene and here are two more
appropriate quotes:

*A plague upon your epileptic visage!

*I have seen better faces in my time/
 Than stands on any shoulder that I see/
 Before me at this instant.

Boy, this is fun.

Brian Willis

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Re: Ancient Iago

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0059  Monday, 14 January 2002

[1]     From:   John Ramsay <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 11:56:52 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago

[2]     From:   Louis Swilley <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 15:06:47 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago

[3]     From:   Brian Willis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 21:39:33 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           John Ramsay <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 11:56:52 -0500
Subject: 13.0045 Ancient Iago
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago

> A small but niggling point: how do people interpret 'ancient', when used
> of Iago? Custom, and the source, seem to demand 'ensign',
> 'standard-bearer'.  But has not the English army always assigned this
> role to a junior officer - a second lieutenant? Why would an Elizabethan
> writer employ the title for someone who expected to have Cassio's job,
> if not Othello's?
>
> 'Ancient' can, of course, mean 'senior'. Do we think Shakespeare
> intended this meaning, or did he feel that the secondary meaning 'old
> and trusted' was important enough to justify the military imprecision?
> The alternatives seem to be either that the role of ensign has been
> degraded (I think not) or that there was only a three-man officer
> command in the Venetian army.
>
> Brian Haylett

Military rank, even today, can pose problems. A Captain in the British
navy is the same rank as a full Colonel in the Army while a Captain in
the army is 3 ranks below both.

Army and navy both have the rank of lieutenant. In the navy an ensign
ranks below a lieutenant.

Keep in mind that Iago was annoyed that Cassio was a lieutenant while he
was only an Ancient/Ensign.

Was Iago annoyed because he had a higher rank than Cassio?

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Louis Swilley <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 15:06:47 -0600
Subject: 13.0045 Ancient Iago
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago

Brian Haylett wrote,

"A small but niggling point: how do people interpret 'ancient', when
used of Iago? Custom, and the source, seem to demand 'ensign',
'standard-bearer'.  But has not the English army always assigned this
role to a junior officer - a second lieutenant? Why would an Elizabethan
writer employ the title for someone who expected to have Cassio's job,
if not Othello's?

"'Ancient' can, of course, mean 'senior'. Do we think Shakespeare
intended this meaning, or did he feel that the secondary meaning 'old
and trusted' was important enough to justify the military imprecision?
The alternatives seem to be either that the role of ensign has been
degraded (I think not) or that there was only a three-man officer
command in the Venetian army."

[While we are on this subject of Iago, would someone tell us what it
means in the play that Othello should turn from an experienced warrior -
I presume Iago is that - and choose the inexperienced "mathematician"
Cassio - and I presume that Cassio is less experienced than Iago - for
his second in command?  I sense that Othello's poor choice here is, in
the structure of ideas in the play,  associated  with his ill-fated
choice of Desdemona, but I don't know what to make of either choice as
part of  or related to Othello's flaw.

        [L. Swilley]

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Brian Willis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Sunday, 13 Jan 2002 21:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 13.0045 Ancient Iago
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0045 Ancient Iago

True. Playing devil's advocate, what if Iago were an older man?
Literally, he would have been passed over countless times. He would be
the ultimate disgruntled worker who decides to take matters into his own
hands.  He would also represent the figure of the old cuckold so often
presented in the classically influenced comedies. An interesting idea...

Brian Willis

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Re: Much Ado about Coin of the Realm

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0057  Monday, 14 January 2002

From:           Dana Shilling <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 12 Jan 2002 22:41:34 -0500
Subject: 13.0032 Re: Much Ado about Coin of the Realm
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0032 Re: Much Ado about Coin of the Realm

About coins and subtitles:

It MUST be an urban legend, but I have heard that the French version of
a Sam Fuller WWI movie turned an anguished shout of "Tanks!" into
"Merci!"

I've been watching "The Pallisers" on video, and I can't help wondering
what Plantagenet Palliser, whose great cause was decimal coinage, would
make of the euro.

Several of the characters referred slightingly to his interest in the
"tenpenny shilling," which I always take personally.

Dana Shilling

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

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