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Home :: Archive :: 2002 :: March ::
Re: Machiavelli
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.07388  Wednesday, 13 March 2002

[1]     From:   Don Bloom <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0733 Re: Machiavelli

[2]     From:   Clifford Stetner <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 13:01:38 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.07373 Re: Fishy

[3]     From:   Bill Arnold <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 10:02:09 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.07382 Re: Machiavelli


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Don Bloom <
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Date:           Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0600
Subject: 13.0733 Re: Machiavelli
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0733 Re: Machiavelli

I refuse to rise to the bait any longer.

Now if Martin Steward had written, "Sounds Fishy to me," at the outset,
I would have known exactly what he meant.

Cheers,
don

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <
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Date:           Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 13:01:38 -0500
Subject: 13.07373 Re: Fishy
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.07373 Re: Fishy

> Now my experiment: I sat under a tree today. Describe the tree.
>
> Yours, Bill Godshalk

Unfair, unfair! We all "sat" "under" a "tree" today, several in fact.
There is the genealogical tree from which each of us derives. There is
Ygdrassil the World Tree of which we similarly all are fruit. There is
the protective shade of our national Constitutions grown from the roots
of centuries of political struggle. There is the rood tree on which our
saviour was ignominiously sacrificed. I have renditions of trees by both
Monet and Van Gogh hanging above chairs in my living room. An accurate
description of one of the trees under which I now sit is an inaccurate
description of the others. Any answer to the question as you pose it
must therefore be wrong.

Clifford

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <
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Date:           Tuesday, 12 Mar 2002 10:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 13.07382 Re: Machiavelli
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.07382 Re: Machiavelli


Clifford Stetner quotes me, then writes, "'I even suggested they might
see Marlowe's ghost in the ghost of Hamlet's father, and thus have to
digest mentally if the ghost which opened _Hamlet_ was a "Machiavellian"
ghost?  Maybe Hamlet's father's ghost was the ghost of  the dead Marlowe
in Shakespeare's mind...'  Some time back I suggested to an
unenthusiastic response that the name Horatio would evoke Kyd who had
just died from illness sustained from the Tower rack and who is credited
on thin evidence with the alleged 'Ur-Hamlet.'"

Loving the English histrionics for melodrama, I want to play a member of
the lower house and cry, "Hear, Hear!!"

Let me just say, that the history of late Elizabethan London, with all
the plots to overthrow the Queen, the Tower stories, the tortures, the
live quarterings, the disembowelings, et al., must have made Shakespeare
cringe to think he was so close to royalty and a maker of plays.  So, I
am even surprised that he was brave enough to do _Hamlet_ with a Danish
setting in that horrific climate.  I'm surprised he didn't place the
setting in _China!_  I do _not_ think that Shakespearean scholars have
given enough credit to Shakespeare the _man_ in all this.  I am _not_
enough of a student of Shakespeare to really back up _your_ suggestion.
But I do believe that if the history of London is looked upon as the
metaphor for the background of _Hamlet_, perhaps you will be found to
have stumbled upon more of the truth than supposed.  Do _not_ forget
that the Earl of Essex, Robert Devereux, was house imprisoned by the
Queen over rumors by him and his cohorts, on numerous occasions, and
according to Robert Lacey in _Robert, Earl of Essex_, in order to save
his own skin this same favourite of the Queen had her finally convinced
to disembowel her own personal physician on the rumor he'd tried to
poison his own patient, HRH the Queen herself.  Thus, all the _poison_
and _rumors_ in _Hamlet_ by the participants, including the ghost of
Hamlet-s father, for me, recalls the horrific _real_ events leading up
to the drafting of the script by Shakespeare which eventually became
_Hamlet_ of 1600.  In fact, the play should be subtitled, _Poisons and
Rumors_.

Bill Arnold

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