Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 2002 :: May ::
Re: Romeo and Juliet
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.1421  Tuesday, 28 May 2002

[1]     From:   Sam Small <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 24 May 2002 13:44:55 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet

[2]     From:   Martin Steward <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 24 May 2002 15:59:34 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet

[3]     From:   Bill Arnold <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Saturday, 25 May 2002 05:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Fwd: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet & Milton & the KJV

[4]     From:   Clifford Stetner <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Monday, 27 May 2002 00:26:19 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sam Small <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 24 May 2002 13:44:55 +0100
Subject: 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet

I absolutely agree with Anna Kamaralli on Milton's misogynistic
interpretation of the Adam and Eve story.  In my view it is the most
important story-myth in our culture.  It is crucial, therefore, that
equal blame be meted out to both sexes for the fall from grace.  In
short, the mess that the world is in is the fault of all the men and all
the women.  Shakespeare called the world "vile."  Sometimes I agree.

SAM SMALL
http://www.passioninpieces.co.uk

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Martin Steward <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 24 May 2002 15:59:34 +0100
Subject: 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet

"How clever of Milton to construct a scenario for The Fall in which the
man gets to remain heroic, noble and self-sacrificing, and the woman
gets to have the WHOLE thing written up as her fault."

Yes, and he doesn't even give Eve the benefit of the doubt when he makes
it quite clear that she knew what she was doing was against the will of
the Almighty (Genesis's is Eve genuinely duped by the serpent, it
seems).

However, it is far too easy to have a go at Milton for his supposed
misogyny.

This culpa turns out to be felix, after all. That's the point of the
poem - "to justify the ways of God" and all. Consider the very last
lines, some of the most moving in all of English literature, and then
rethink the extent to which we should see Milton's Eve as the author of
our disaster:

Some natural tears they dropp'd, but wip'd them soon;
The World was all before them, where to choose
Their place of rest, and Providence their guide:
They hand in hand with wand'ring steps and slow,
Through Eden took their solitary way.

m

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Saturday, 25 May 2002 05:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet & Milton & the KJV
Comment:        Fwd: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet & Milton & the KJV

Anna Kamaralli quotes, "Adam at first amaz'd, but perceiving her lost,
resolves through vehemence of love to perish with her."

Then Anna writes, "How clever of Milton to construct a scenario for The
Fall in which the man gets to remain heroic, noble and self-sacrificing,
and the woman gets to have the WHOLE thing written up as her fault."

FILM SCENARIO:

If I am not mistaken, didn't Milton know his KJV?  In KJV Genesis, C3,
in essence, Eve rails against God her Inquisitor, paraphrasing, The
Devil Made Me Do IT! [Classic Blues music should play in the
background...for this opening scene from the film, In the Beginning...]

Actually, C 3 begins like a StarWars voice-over with music playing in
the background, "Now the serpent was more subtitle than any beast of the
field..."  Drum roll, Maestro!

Then we are told, in no uncertain terms, "And he [ the big BAD Serpent:
wonder who we cast in that role :) ]  said unto the woman, "Yea, hath
God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"  One eye-brow,
lifting, left-eye shiftily, winking :)  [Dead silence...no music...
camera pans to the Full Sun Blazing, setting over the trees at the far
end of the garden of Eden...FADE OUT! ]

Well, in a nut shell, the woman LISTENS to the PITCH of the pitchman:
Next day, DAWN, scene, Adam and Eve strolling [ :) ] in the garden...
and we are told, "And when the woman saw that the tree _was_ good for
food, and that it _was_ pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired
to make _one_ wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave
also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."  FADE OUT!

DARKENED THEATRE...a small light center screen peeps, timidly
grows...Deep Voice-Over, aka The Shadow KNOWS..."Who WAS that masked
Marvel, the Serpent?  And where was HER husband while she was LISTENING
to his incredible PITCH?"  Light fills screen, onto:

Mid DAY, new day...scene change...God, again, sounding like a famous
Shakespearean character, sitting on a branch of a tall Banyan tree,
looking down into the depth of the dark forest, barking out Adam's name,
and demands, ""Where _art_ thou?"

Now, God is NO Juliet, but He quickly ESTABLISHES guilt, when Adam
laments, The Woman Made Me Do It, I Didn't Want To Do It, She Made Me L
- O - V - E Her!....more bluesy tunes in the background. [Soft FADE OUT
]

Later THAT day...by a CRYSTAL CLEAR lake, the sunlight GLINTING off the
water and streaming INTO the viewer's eyes...Ver-r-r-r-y HARD to SEE:
God and Eve, under a tree, standing, facing each other: She, with her
hands on her hips, one hip cocked haughtily, her hair tosses back, as
she takes in this SILLY scene:

God: "What _is_ this _that_ thou has done?"

Woman: "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

God, LOOKS at the audience, and frowns, smiles, KNOWingly, and the
OMNISCIENT thought from StarWar voice-over...

"Where have WE heard THAT story before!  Hah!"

[ FADE OUT : end credits ROLL ! EXIT MUSIC ]

Bill Arnold

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Monday, 27 May 2002 00:26:19 -0400
Subject: 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1415 Re: Romeo and Juliet

See: Bennett, Joan S.  Reviving Liberty: Radical Christian Humanism in
Milton's Great Poems.  London: Harvard U P, 1989. 94 ff.

Clifford

> > "Adam at first amaz'd, but perceiving her lost, resolves through
> > vehemence of love to perish with her"
>
> How clever of Milton to construct a scenario for The Fall in which the
> man gets to remain heroic, noble and self-sacrificing, and the woman
> gets to have the WHOLE thing written up as her fault.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, 
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.
 

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.