Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 2002 :: November ::
Re: St. Crispin's Day
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.2186  Sunday, 3 November 2002

[1]     From:   Steve Roth <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Oct 2002 09:16:13 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day

[2]     From:   Erika Lin <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Oct 2002 15:10:29 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day


[3]     From:   Mark Williams <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 1 Nov 2002 14:51:00 +1100
        Suct:   RE: SHK 13.2158 Re: St. Crispin's Day

[4]     From:   Al Magary <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Friday, 1 Nov 2002 23:25:01 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.2177 St. Crispin's Day


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Steve Roth <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Thursday, 31 Oct 2002 09:16:13 -0800
Subject: 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day

David Evett:

>if she [Chapman] can point to additional materials outside the
>play that  sustain her argument, I would be happy to hear of them.

She surveys references, large and small, in all of the plays mentioned
in the previous post, quite convincingly. I would say that the chapter
is somewhat flawed by its "privileging" of dramatic texts over others,
but the survey of dramatic references and treatments is impressive.

>And
>if "Henry" in the quotation is only a metonymy for something like "the
>representation of Henry constructed by Shakespeare and the other
>authorial agents of the play, "

I'd say that accurately represents her position. She wasn't saying that
the historical Henry did this.

>I think it equally plausible that
>Shakespeare noticed the reference in Holinshed, and amplified it in the
>play as a tacit memorial to Thomas Deloney, who had recently died (some
>time shortly before April, 1600),

Possible, but her survey of the literature suggests a much wider
reference to contemporary issues.

>and/or a nod to the shoemakers and
>tailors in the audience

This thought has certainly crossed my mind--even the thought of some
special performance for the guild--though it's purely speculative.

>--to some of whom, no doubt, the Chamberlain's
>Men owed money.

And this is moreso.

While we're being speculative, I wonder if glove makers shared
pretensions to gentility similar to the shoemakers and cobblers?

Steve
http://princehamlet.com

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Erika Lin <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Thursday, 31 Oct 2002 15:10:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.2177 Re: St. Crispin's Day

>Roth's summary and quotation may misrepresent the depth and richness of
>Chapman's argument; if she can point to additional materials outside the
>play that  sustain her argument, I would be happy to hear of them.

I haven't had time to read this article yet, but I thought I'd cite it
here in case others are interested (and can't get a hold of the
dissertation):

Alison A. Chapman, "Whose Saint Crispins' day is it?: Shoemaking,
holiday making, and the politics of memory in early modern England,"
_Renaissance Quarterly_, Winter 2001 v54 i4 p1467(28)

Best,
Erika Lin

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mark Williams <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 1 Nov 2002 14:51:00 +1100
Subject: 13.2158 Re: St. Crispin's Day
Comment:        RE: SHK 13.2158 Re: St. Crispin's Day

May I also add that St Crispin's Day is also the anniversary of the
death of Geoffrey Chaucer?

Mark Williams

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Al Magary <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Friday, 1 Nov 2002 23:25:01 -0800
Subject: 13.2177 St. Crispin's Day
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.2177 St. Crispin's Day

As I cross posted my query about St. Crispin's feastday (and Agincourt)
to the Medieval-Religion list, I forward this reply, from Tim Henderson,
to SHAKSPERians.  The brackets are his, and I don't understand what they
mean.  As to his question about who the patron saint of brewers is/was,
St. Arnold has long been associated with brewers but I don't know if
that was the case in Tudor England.--Al Magary

----
I was interested that the Edwardine Injunctions specifically referred to
the feast day of shoemakers (presumably Crispin/Crispinian)--dare I
repeat my old posting:

[The Elizabethan Injunctions made reference to the private holy days of
brewers.  (I guess shoemakers had Crispin Crispian and smiths had
Clement ). Does anyone know who the brewers honoured?...

The 1559 Injunctions
Gee, Henry, and William John Hardy, ed.,
Documents Illustrative of English Church History
(New York: Macmillan, 1896), 417-29.
http://history.hanover.edu/texts/ENGref/LXXVIII_1.htm

XXII. Also, that they shall instruct and teach in their cures, that no
man ought obstinately and maliciously to break and violate the laudable
ceremonies of the Church, [commanded by public authority to be observed
[59]].

59. Ed. VI adds, 'by the king commanded to be observed, and as yet not
abrogated. And on the other side, that whosoever doth superstitiously
abuse them, doth the same to the great peril and danger of his soul's
health: as in casting holy water upon his bed, upon images, and other
dead things, or bearing about him holy bread, or St. John's Gospel, or
making of crosses of wood upon Palm Sunday, in time of reading of the
Passion, or keeping of private holy days, as bakers, brewers, smiths,
shoemakers, and such other do; or ringing of holy bells; or blessing
with the holy candle, to the intent thereby to be discharged of the
burden of sin, or to drive away devils, or to put away dreams and
phantasies, or in putting trust and confidence of health and salvation
in the same ceremonies, when they be only ordained, instituted, and
made, to put us in remembrance of the benefits which we have received by
Christ. And if he use them for any other purpose, he grievously
offendeth God.'

23rd November St. Clement patron of ironworkers, carpenters, blacksmiths
and anchor makers]

I am still trying to identify who Edward reckoned had the day for
brewers!

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, 
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.
 

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.