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Home :: Archive :: 2002 :: September ::
Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.1894  Friday, 13 September 2002

[1]     From:   Joachim Martillo <
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        Date:   Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 11:57:57 EDT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment

[2]     From:   Dana Shilling <
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        Date:   Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 12:26:47 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment

[3]     From:   John W. Kennedy <
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        Date:   Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 19:18:34 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Joachim Martillo <
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Date:           Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 11:57:57 EDT
Subject: 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment

>>1 -- I am puzzled as to the meaning of the phrase, "the terms of the
>>sacrament of Confession." Is he (or she) referring to that sacrament as
>>practiced in the Church of England? If so, could these terms be cited
>>for us -- perhaps in both their modern form (relating to CSL) and their
>>Elizabethan form (WS)?

>From the death of Mary I, at least through Lewis's life, there was no
>such sacrament recognized by the Church of England, although, starting
>in the 19th century, some Anglicans practiced it privately. Official
>notice was taken of it in the Episcopal Church in the USA only in the
>70's, and if it has been introduced in the Church of England (I don't
>know whether it has or not) it has been since then.  Lewis did, in fact,
>have a confessor, but, as he died in 1963, it was never in any
>officially recognized form.

>>What could he possibly do except to "give [him]self up to the
>>police and be hanged"?

>Strictly speaking, of course, Lewis is being obviously rhetorical here.
>In logic, all the penitent murderer can do is give himself up to the
>police; the hanging is out of his hands.

I was under the impression that Anglo-Catholics (sometimes identified as
High Church) have practiced the sacrament of confession since the 19th
century.  Anglo-Catholicism is the name given to the movement within the
Anglican Church that was inspired by the Tractarians.

Death in the Holy Orders is an Adam Dalgliesh mystery that takes place
in an Anglo-Catholic divinity school.

Joachim Martillo

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Shilling <
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Date:           Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 12:26:47 -0400
Subject: 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment

Joining the thread already in progress:

1. Claudius' attempted prayer reminds me of a saying of a Bard somewhat
less exalted than the one that is our topic here:

I've been where you're hanging,
I think I can see where you're pinned.
If you're not feeling holy,
Your loneliness shows where you're sinned.

(Leonard Cohen, "The Sisters of Mercy")

2. And, because we're getting a teensy bit OT, on the subject of guilt
and punishment may I
suggest Auden's "The Guilty Vicarage" (lengthy quotations omitted).

Dana Shilling

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           John W. Kennedy <
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Date:           Thursday, 12 Sep 2002 19:18:34 -0400
Subject: 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.1885 Re: C.S. Lewis on Punishment

From:           L. Swilley <
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>[The very association of "Christian" with the idea of submission to the
>public police is the telling error.]

    Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there
    is no authority except by God's appointment, and the authorities
    that exist have been instituted by God. So the person who resists
    such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist
    will incur judgment (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but
    for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will
    receive its commendation, for it is God's servant for your good.
    But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword
    in vain. It is God's servant to administer retribution on the
    wrongdoer. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only
    because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your
    conscience.
         Romans 13:1-5

Look, you can believe whatever you damn well like, but to make
generalized statements about Christian doctrine that are based only on
your private religion is bad scholarship that can only get in the way of
sensible discussion.

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