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Home :: Archive :: 2003 :: December ::
LION
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2267  Monday, 1 December 2003

[1]     From:   Robin Hamilton <
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        Date:   Friday, 28 Nov 2003 13:45:36 -0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

[2]     From:   Ted Nellen <
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        Date:   Friday, 28 Nov 2003 07:51:17 -0600 (CST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

[3]     From:   Stuart Hampton-Reeves <
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        Date:   Friday, 28 Nov 2003 14:26:15 +0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

[4]     From:   Bill Lloyd <
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        Date:   Friday, 28 Nov 2003 19:28:20 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

[5]     From:   Bill Lloyd <
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        Date:   Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 22:12:43 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2252 LION


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <
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Date:           Friday, 28 Nov 2003 13:45:36 -0000
Subject: 14.2252 LION
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

> Bill Lloyd is not alone in wishing that he had access to LION.
>I *am* a student at a University, but frustratingly - after salivating
>for months over the prospect of finally getting my hands on LION - I
>found that University of Kent had cancelled its subscription just before
>I arrived, due to a hefty hike in the prices by LION.

You *can* backdoor LION -- and EEBO, and OED4 -- but it's highly
illegal.

Easiest is getting in legitimately through either the British Library or
Cambridge University Library.

Neither the BL or CUL are particularly sniffy about qualifications.

Someday, more importantly, the SND and the DOST will be on-line ...

Praise de lor' ...

<g>

Robin Hamilton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Ted Nellen <
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Date:           Friday, 28 Nov 2003 07:51:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: 14.2252 LION
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

Shakespeare has provided us many examples to help us with this problem.
It is a matter of ethics on one hand. is it suggested we act unethically
to achieve an end: access to LION? Perhaps in examples of how to get
what we want knowing it is not the answer but satisfies an immediate
goal. The ends justify the means, a constant Shakespeare theme and we
know the results.

Disguise and subterfuge flow through Shakespeare's work and we know
them.

We also know when we take our issues public and that does take time, I
know, compromises can be met.

How have we approached our universities, LION with this issue?

I see this as yet another example of the haves and the have nots
battling and a further example of the digital divide. I see it as how
publishers continue to gouge students, knowing they are a captured
audience.

So what is to be done?

Boycott? Make it public? Be subversive? Break the law? Ignore it and
hope one day you will have access? Be quiet cause you do and you don't
want to rock the boat?

Those who have stay quiet and the have nots are left to rot or fend for
themselves.

I'd suggest a public outcry, a public questioning of universities and
LION. Conflict mediation.

I have always loved Mercutio and what he represented and esp. his
outcome as that is our fate in the battle of powers and stubbornness.
Are both sides aware of the needs of the other side? Has this been
expressed or do both sides stay quiet and proceed on finding alternate
paths without solving the problem to the satisfaction or partial
satisfaction of the other? Has negotiation happened or has it just been
abandoned as we see in Shakespeare all too often and in life as we see
now centered on Iraq.

I find this conversation fascinating, thanks scholars.

Ted Nellen
NYC Public HS English Teacher

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Stuart Hampton-Reeves <
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Date:           Friday, 28 Nov 2003 14:26:15 +0000
Subject: 14.2252 LION
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

I've often been baffled by the high subscription costs of LION and
EEBO.  All of the texts are out of copyright, so the only real costs
involved for the company are typing them up - which is a simple
data-processing job and involves a one-off costs for each text -- and
maintaining the servers, which is actually not strictly necessary for,
impressive as it sounds, 350000 texts could comfortably sit on my hard
drive and could certainly be downloaded onto institutional networks
without the need for a connection to the LION servers.

All things being equal, LION should have recouped their initial
investment a long time ago and prices should be falling, not rising.
Compared to the British Pathe database of news reels, which is of a
comparable size, is fully searchable, has a better-designed interface
and is free, LION is extremely expensive. A project to digitise as much
out-of-copyright material as possible will need to be funded out of the
public purse, as was the British Pathe site, if we are all to have an
online reading experience equivalent to going to a library.

Stuart Hampton-Reeves

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Lloyd <
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Date:           Friday, 28 Nov 2003 19:28:20 EST
Subject: 14.2252 LION
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

Thanks to those who have replied both here and off-list to my query on
the problem of accessing Early English Books Online [EEBO] or
Chadwyck-Healey's Literature Online [LION] when one is not affiliated
with subscribing institutions or one's library cannot afford a
subscription. If we could all move to [or easily visit] London then we
could all use the British Library, but I suspect that's not an option
for most...

For me the problem is not just access to the texts. I'm fortunate [well,
yes and no] to live in the Washington DC area. At the Folger I can see
many of these texts, and most of the ones they don't actually have are
available there on microfilm. The feature that takes LION to another
level is the *searchability* of the database. [Or so I've heard tell--
I've never yet been able to LION up.]  MacDonald Jackson has pointed out
in several articles the benefits of this feature for authorship studies;
and its potential for use in source studies, history of language and
other areas is great.

While the landowners and the wealthy peasants click on the great feast
of language, many of us are reduced to smeared xeroxes and hi-liters, or
feed on their scraps... Oops! I seem to have accidentally gone Bolshie!
back to the land of the living:

I have found some of the texts I seek, in searchable form, on-line at
Luminarium and other sites-- but only a fraction of what I "need".  If
only we could organize a People's Revolutionary Database! Actually, some
[see the various e-text links pages] are chipping away at this but the
number of folks with the time, the skills and the technology is small
compared to the enormous number of texts needed. Sigh...

I had a specific need to search eight linguistic features through the
works of Lyly. There's a concordance for his novels, and three of his
plays and a pamphlet are available in searchable on-line e-texts. I've
hand-counted another, with four to go but I've found that hand-counting,
aside from being excruciatingly slow, is very difficult to keep
error-free. Anyone wanna trade? You look up these words for me in Lyly
plays on LION and I'll look up something you need at the Folger, plus!
you get a Free! WORD attachment of my article...

Well, I figure it can't hurt to ask...

Bill Lloyd

P.S. I know there are various e-texts of good Shakespeare around but can
someone point me to a searchable on-line e-text of Q1 [the "bad" quarto]
of Romeo & Juliet? Thanks!

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Lloyd <
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Date:           Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 22:12:43 EST
Subject: 14.2252 LION
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2252 LION

Uh-oh! silly me... Q1 ["bad" quarto] of Romeo and Juliet *is* available
and searchable at ISE: Internet Shakespeare Editions. I hadn't looked
closely enough when I tacked that request onto the end of my LION
rant...

Bill Lloyd

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