2003

Volpone

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2414  Monday, 22 December 2003

From:           Seb Perry <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 19 Dec 2003 16:20:49 -0000
Subject: 14.2409 Volpone
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2409 Volpone

It might be worth noting that, according to that marvellous time-wasting
trivia resource the Internet Movie Database, Volpone has been adapted to
the screen several times. The most recent was this year for French
television, starring G


Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2413  Monday, 22 December 2003

[1]     From:   David Williams <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 19 Dec 2003 08:25:10 -0600
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

[2]     From:   Laurie Richards <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 19 Dec 2003 07:59:47 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

[3]     From:   Al Magary <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Friday, 19 Dec 2003 13:35:23 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

[4]     From:   Debra Murphy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Saturday, 20 Dec 2003 10:39:21 -0800
        Subj:   RE: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

[5]     From:   Richard Burt <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:21:23 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Williams <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 19 Dec 2003 08:25:10 -0600
Subject: 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

In his letters, Tolkien wrote about the influence that Birnam Wood had
on the ents.  He described his feeling that Shakespeare had been a let
down.  He thought that the actual moving of the woods would have been
far more powerful than a bunch of soldiers carrying branches.  He said
that he had always wanted to do this scene correctly.  I don't have my
copy of "Letters" here at the office, but if anyone is interested I can
look up the actual quote over the weekend.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Laurie Richards <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 19 Dec 2003 07:59:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

Well this is a coincidence! I was watching The Two Towers last night and
thinking about the connection between Shakespeare and Tolkien. You
brought up some points I hadn't thought about. I was thinking how King
Theoden reminded me of King Lear and I think there was a line that
reminded me of the last few lines Albany speaks:

The weight of this sad time we must obey;
Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.
The oldest hath borne most: we that are young,
Shall never see so much, nor live so long.

I was also thinking of the relationship between Sam and Frodo and how
intense their master/servant relationship is; very similar to that of
Kent and King Lear....or Horatio and Hamlet.

~Laurie

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Al Magary <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Friday, 19 Dec 2003 13:35:23 -0800
Subject: 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

Brian Willis wrote of LOTR/Return of the King:

>The chief Dark
>Rider is portrayed by Gandalf as impossible to be slain by man. Of
>course, it runs across Eowyn at the Battle of Minas Tirith and
>pronounces to her: "I can not be slain by mankind". Eowyn takes off her
>helm and defiantly asserts "I am not man" before impaling its face(?) on
>her sword. Perhaps not a direct parallel but the closeness of the
>deception made me immediately think of Macbeth.

...Or the Odyssey?  "Nobody--that's my name," says Odysseus to Cyclops.
And when he blinds the giant's only eye, Cyclops wails, "Nobody's
killing me now by fraud and not by force!"  (Bk 9, Fagles trans.)

But I'm seeing the movie tonight and will look for Shakespearean echoes
in more than Aragorn's Henry V speech (that echo is in one of the
trailers).

Cheers,
Al Magary

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Debra Murphy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Saturday, 20 Dec 2003 10:39:21 -0800
Subject: 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)
Comment:        RE: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

Tolkien, being the passionate purist-scholar of old English that he was,
did not much care, it would seem, for anything written after 1066, when
Latin influences began to muddy (in Tolkien's view) the pure stream of
ancient Anglo-Saxon speech and culture.

I can't remember now whether I read it in his letters or in one of the
biographies, but while Tolkien grumped frequently about Shakespeare, he
was, perhaps in spite of himself, intrigued by the Scottish Play; only
he was disappointed with the play-wright for having missed such a grand
opportunity at "Faerie-ish" storytelling with Burnam Wood coming to
Dunsinane. In this light, Tolkien's March of the Ents was his attempt,
one might say, to get the thing "right."

(SPOILER ALERT--RETURN OF THE KING)

Eowyn's dispatching of the Witch King of Angmar, who boasts that "no man
can kill me") would indeed appear as yet another (perhaps reluctant)
homage.  But then it *is* rather hard to write anything on a large
scale, in English, and completely avoid Bard-ish references, even if
you're a pre-Norman curmudgeon like Tolkien.

Debra Murphy
http://www.bardolatry.com
http://www.debramurphy.com

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Richard Burt <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:21:23 -0500
Subject: 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2402 Tolkien and Shakespeare (Again)

I had the same thought about Macbeth.  By the way, a trailer for the
next Harry Potter film played when I saw Return of the King, and it
repeats "something wicked this way comes" several times (the line's part
of a chorale sung by kids).  After the trailer finished, a kid sitting
behind me said "hmmm, using Mr. William Shakespeare."  I smiled.

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Slings and Arrows

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2411  Friday, 19 December 2003

[1]     From:   D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 07:38:57 -0600
        Subj:   RE: SHK 14.2397 Slings and Arrows

[2]     From:   Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 06:48:00 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2397 Slings and Arrows [and Outrageous Misfortune]


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 07:38:57 -0600
Subject: 14.2397 Slings and Arrows
Comment:        RE: SHK 14.2397 Slings and Arrows

Tanya Gough notes

". . . such blurbs are often written by television station and
production underlings who may or may not have a complete grasp of the
production and it's intent.  They may also *gasp* not have a strong
understanding of the specifics of Hamlet and its plot devices."

Soittinly. And, in addition, such blurb-writers often do not have a
complete grasp of the English language, its grammar, and its vocabulary
-- even those who are allegedly native speakers.

Speaking as one who has waded through much miasmic blurbery,

don

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 06:48:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 14.2397 Slings and Arrows [and Outrageous Misfortune]
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2397 Slings and Arrows [and Outrageous Misfortune]

Tanya Gough writes, "I do not think that Slings and Arrows is meant to
be an historically accurate retelling of Hamlet, but is rather a clearly
satirical (note New Burbage and the director "Oliver" Welles) take on
theatre life, in which Shakespeare and his work are referenced
*ironically* and iconographically, not literally. I realize that you,
and others of your ilk, remain horrified and appalled by modern attempts
to transform Shakespeare's work...Incidentally, the show hasn't even
aired yet, but we've already fielded several phone calls from people
looking for the show on DVD.  So, no, my comments were not
tongue-in-cheek, but rather helpful advice meant to assist those who
have a genuine interest in these types of productions."

OK: Tanya, as one who noted *McBird* was a parody/satire of Macbeth I
wish you to know that you dropped the (s) off of *ilk* and I do not take
offense, nor offence, nor defense.  Remember: as a journalist, I once
labored in the tabloid trenches and understand all you write and imply
and state clearly.  Quite frankly, I too was born with a pen between my
teeth--to the chagrin of my mother!

But please do not miss my point: after four hundred years, the scholars
of Shakespeare's works *still* interpret the play Hamlet and its lead
character Prince Hamlet *all wrong*!  If *they* got it right, for once
and for all, that Prince Hamlet was charming and witty, and like Don
Quixote, human and born to a horrible set of circumstances, and unable
to discern he was "tilting at windmills"-- then the parodies/satires of
Hamlet might reflect *truth and substance* rather than shrill nonsense!
Certainly, that is my silk opinion, and I stand and sit by it: not to be
confused with Terence, of stupid stuff, by A.E., I am no milk-toast
type, but eat bacon and eggs and *wry* <g> toast for breakfast while
reading Eliot's *The Waste Land* every morning with my cup of java.

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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Lessons

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2412  Friday, 19 December 2003

From:           Richard Kennedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 21:40:21 -0800
Subject:        Lessons

Saddam should have read more Shakespeare.

_______________________________________________________________
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The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
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Belatedness of Hamlet

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2410  Friday, 19 December 2003

[1]     From:   Elliott H. Stone <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 10:05:59 -0500
        Subj:   RE: SHK 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet

[2]     From:   Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 07:24:20 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Elliott H. Stone <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 10:05:59 -0500
Subject: 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet
Comment:        RE: SHK 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet

I am of the school that would argue that Polonius has himself revised
the letter that he reads to the King and Queen and tells them was sent
by Hamlet to Ophelia. It may be that Polonius wrote the entire letter?

Best,
Elliott H. Stone

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Dana Wilson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 18 Dec 2003 07:24:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2392 Belatedness of Hamlet

It has occurred to me that the belatedness of Hamlet also applies to the
killing of Claudius: That if H had killed him sooner the tragedy could
have been avoided.  Indeed, if H had killed him before the marriage of
his mother, A marriage could have been arranged between Gertrude and Old
Norway which might have satisfied both Hamlet and Fortinbras.

It has also occurred to that the haste of the marriage is illuminated by
my previous comments re the system of concentric cycles of time ranging
from tyrannical minutes all the way up to international correspondence.

In Act 1, sc 2, ln 15, Claudius tells the assembly we have taken full
domestic consultation and have all yr consent; and while young
Fortinbras has objected, Old Norway has consented with his silence.

I do believe in passive consent, but the problem of the haste raises a
question in my mind if Old Norway was given sufficient time to consider
his answer, possibly by taking international consultations of his own,
which would not have been necessary for the brash Fortinbras.

I'm sure WS has some trope about quick youth and limping age which is
applicable here.

Likewise, I would suggest that Hamlet true object to the marriage is
that he himself was not given time to take intl consultation.   On
hearing of his father's death he made for Denmark with all haste and
then was kept prisoner in the Castle while the marriage of Gertrude and
Claudius was conducted.

Perhaps, he was allowed to write letters to his contacts abroad but
instead of responding in writing, they are brought by R&G in the person
of the players, presumably to be H's courtiers, or share his
imprisonment as the case may be.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

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