2003

Pop Culture: Juliet's Nurse analyzed on Guiding Light

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2236  Wednesday, 26 November 2003

From:           Peter Donaldson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Nov 2003 14:08:34 -0500
Subject: 14.2216 Pop Culture: Juliet's Nurse analyzed on
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2216 Pop Culture: Juliet's Nurse analyzed on
Guiding Light

Zeffirelli's  presentation of the scene suggests that the Nurse's advice
that Juliet commit bigamy is a solemn choice. The Nurse's reply to
Juliet's "but goes thy heart with this?" -- "Aye and my soul, too, or
else beshrew them both" is treated as a risk of salvation knowingly
undertaken for the sake of Juliet's survival.

On the Nurse's retrospective sexuality, there's a wonderful piece by
Edward A. Snow in Shakespeare's 'Rough Magic."  Katherine Dalsimer's
Female Adolescence also has a good chapter on Romeo and Juliet, written
from the point of view of a  clinical psychologist that's relevant to
these questions.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Margaret, Rivers and Dorset

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2235  Wednesday, 26 November 2003

From:           Laurie Richards <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Nov 2003 09:57:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 14.2222 Margaret, Rivers and Dorset
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2222 Margaret, Rivers and Dorset

"The characters in this scene generally hold Margaret responsible for
Rutland's death, and Dorset throws his cap in with the others, saying
"no man but prophesied revenge for it". Yet if Dorset was a Lancastrian
at the time of Rutland's death, as he was, then he too would have been a
confederate of the bloody Clifford, and should be considered more
complicit in Rutland's death than qualified to cast judgment for it."

I think there are two primary reasons why Margaret is blamed for
Rutland's death and Dorset isn't. 1) She was the leader of the army and
the losses and victories are often attributed to the leader, hence she's
the responsible party. 2) One of my favorite scenes in all Shakespeare
is the death of York in Henry VI part III 1:4 when Margaret offers York
the cloth steeped in Rutland's blood, indeed, she mocks him with it;
which makes her at least on some level, complicit in Rutland's death; "I
stain'd this napkin with the blood/ That valiant Clifford with his
rapier's point/ Made issue from the bosom of the boy;" shortly
thereafter she stabs York.  Interestingly, on some level this echoes the
death of Rutland; after all, Clifford first stabs Rutland before
Margaret bloodies her hand and then she follows Clifford once again by
stabbing York immediately after Clifford stabs him.

"The second problem is less clear-cut* and concerns the death of Ned
Plantagenet, Margaret's son, murdered by the three York boys (Edward,
Clarence and Richard). Margaret describes Hastings as a stander-by at
this event**, also tarring Rivers and Dorset with this same brush, and
cursing all three. Yet (like the previous problem with the roles
reversed) if Rivers & Dorset were Lancastrians at the time then their
status as standers-by was the same as Margaret's herself***- friends to
the unfortunate Ned who would have saved him but were impotent to do
so."

That is kind of puzzling, and I think I've noticed this before (but then
it's been probably 12-13 years). Here are a couple possible answers:
Shakespeare got lost. Can we blame him? The huge cast of characters is
enough to confuse anyone! It's also possible that they are soldiers
fighting for Edward and not listed as such because they don't play an
important part in the scene. I also suspect this is an issue of
Shakespeare taking creative license because to the best of my knowledge
the Rivers referred to is historically her father (but then, when did
Shakespeare care about being historically accurate?!). But like Warwick
and George Clarence, Shakespeare's Rivers may have switched sides to
keep his family fortune secure. Dorset was fourteen when his mother
married Edward IV, about the same age as Margaret's son if I'm not
mistaken, and possibly he could've been one of the unnamed soldiers
during that particular scene along with Rivers. That's just the way I'm
interpreting it.

Laurie

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2233  Tuesday, 25 November 2003

From:           Richard Kennedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 24 Nov 2003 15:53:41 -0800
Subject:        The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange

The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange: With the pleasaunt Humours of the
Cripple of Fanchurch. Very delectable, and full of mirth.
London...1607.

The Shakspere Allusion Book, Vol I, gives this play to Thomas Heywood,
but it is anonymous and much doubted. The allusion they give is this:
Bowdler speaks:  "...as for example, Venus her selfe with all her skill
could not winne Adonis...."  The editors then give several passages that
are somewhat alike to Shakespeare, L.L.Lost, Much Ado, As you like it,
and Merry Wives of Windsor.

But there's much more for our curiosity.  If Oxford was praised for his
comedy, where are his comedies?  Dr.  Dodypoll may be one of them, and
this I think is another.

E.K.Chambers, "The Elizabethan Stage" Vol. IV gives us much doubt about
the author, as follows:

"Heywood's authorship was asserted by Kirkman in 1671 (Greg, "Masques,"
lxvii), denied by Langbaine in 1687, accepted by Charles Lamb and out of
respect to him by Ward, ii. 572, and is still a matter of dispute.
Fleay, ii. 329, assigned it to Machin on quite inadequate grounds.
Hibberd argues the case for Heywood, and Aaronstein attempts a
compromise by giving ii. I, iv. I, and v to Heywood and the rest to some
young academic student of Shakespeare and Jonson.  The imitations of
these point to a date c. 1602.  I do not offer an opinion."

The plot falls out that some letters must be written, and Cripple
volunteers himself for the work:

Crip.  Why, thinkst thou that I cannot write a letter,
Ditty, or Sonnet with judiciall phrase,
As pretty, pleasing, and patheticall,
As the best Ovid-immitating dunce
In all the towne.

Franke.  I thinke thou canst not.

Crip. Yea, ile sweare I cannot,
Yet sirra, I could conny-catch the world,
Make my selfe famous for a sodaine wit,
And be admirde for my dexteritie,
Were I disposde.

Franke.  I pre thee how.

Crip. Why thus there liv'd a Poet in this towne,
(If we may terme our moderne Writers Poets)
Sharpe-witted, bitter-tongd, his penne of steele,
His incke was temperd with the biting juice
And extracts of the bitterst weedes that grew,
He never wrote but when the elements
Of Fire and Water tilted in his braine:
This fellow ready to give up his ghost
To Luciaes bosome, did bequeathe to me
His Library, which was just nothing,
But rolles, and scrolles, and bundles of cast wit,
Such as durst never visit Paules churchyard:
Amongst them all, I happened on quire
Or two of paper filld with Songs and Ditties,
And heere and there a hungry Epigramme,
These I reserve to my owne proper use,
And Pater-noster-like have kon'd them all.
I could now when I am in company,
At alehouse, taverne, or an ordinarie,
Upon a theame make an extemporall ditty,
(Or one at least should seeme extemporall)
Out of th'aboundance of this Legacie,
That all would judge it, and report it too,
To be the infant of a sodaine wit,
And then were I an admirable fellow.

Franke.  This were a peece of cunning.

Crip.  I could doe more, for I could make enquirie
Where the best witted Gallants use to dine,
Follow them to the taverne, and there sit
In the next rowme with a calves head and brimstone,
And over heare their talke, observe their humours,
Collect their jeasts, put them into a play,
And tire them too with payment to behold
What I have filcht from them.  This I could doe:
But O for shame that men should so arraigne
Their own feesimple wits, for verball theft!
Yet men there be that have done this and that,
And more by much more than the most of them.

If these passages were set as a footnote regarding the identity of
Shake-scene in Groatsworth, the conclusion must be that Shake-scene was
the man from Stratford, who had the same eaves-dropping and bombasting
talents Cripple describes. But if not, it's an interesting piece of
reporting, and can be added to our bumbling efforts to know who wrote
what.  It's much like Shakespeare.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2234  Wednesday, 26 November 2003

From:           Bill Lloyd <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Nov 2003 08:33:01 EST
Subject: 14.2233 The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.2233 The Fayre Mayde of the Exchange

When I did some work on FME over a dozen years ago, my strong impression
was that there are at least two hands in it. Using the scene numbers of
the Malone Society Reprint, I found [I thought] that scenes 1 and 7 were
by a different author than [most of] the rest of the play, and that that
author was not Heywood. Actually, I think much of the play may be by
William Haughton, but my study of it is incomplete, to say the least.

Which brings me to another question. I hate to be a beggar, but can
anyone suggest to me how an independent scholar [neither attending nor
teaching at a university] can access EEBO or LION? Benefactors please
reply off-list.

Thanks,
Bill Lloyd

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Dramatis personae

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.2232  Tuesday, 25 November 2003

From:           Dan Smith <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Monday, 24 Nov 2003 14:04:35 -0000
Subject: 14.2195 Dramatis personae
Comment:        RE: SHK 14.2195 Dramatis personae

I have a lot of time for the 'entity' as spirit rather than ghost. But
if the ghost is Hamlet Sr. but not J.R.'s father it would explain why
he/it has no compunction about encouraging Hamlet Jr. on a course of
action that even a person of normal vision would expect to be fatal. I
don't see why he/it can't be dissembling when claiming to be his father.

Dan Smith

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Search

Make a Gift to SHAKSPER

Consider making a gift to support SHAKSPER.