Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 2003 :: July ::
Re: Knocking on Wood
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1346  Wednesday, 2 July 2003

[1]     From:   Graham Hall <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Tuesday, 01 Jul 2003 14:50:35 +0000
        Subj:   Re: Legion

[2]     From:   Bill Arnold <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 09:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

[3]     From:   Larry Weiss <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 12:35:55 -0400
        Subj:   RE: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

[4]     From:   Martin Steward <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 21:02:07 +0100
        Subj:   SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

[5]     From:   David Friedberg <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
        Date:   Tuesday, 01 Jul 2003 20:54:42 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Graham Hall <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Tuesday, 01 Jul 2003 14:50:35 +0000
Subject:        Re: Legion

Carol Barton writes,

>[...]old prejudices, many superstitions persist long[...]Comparative mythology[...]it
>indulges in superstition[...]seems almost blasphemous[...]" and juxtaposes this with
>"the solemnly Christian: did whoever originated it think the Son need to be
>wakened from slumber to come to the aid of the faithful" [...]
>without apparently noticing the irony that could be deduced by those on SHAKSPER
>of a more "catholic" (N.B. John Mahon!) disposition with regard to
>ancient religions.

Even although I live near to Stonehenge I do not take offence however!

Archsubccuba Hall.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 09:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

Matthew Baynham quotes David Friedberg, "Is it not true that almost all
Christian practices are pagan in origin?"

Then Matthew Baynham writes, "Perhaps this is just a throwaway comment.
It would be truer, of course, to say that the most characteristic
Christian practices are Jewish in origin."

Well, as a former professor of classics, and versed in the teaching of
comparative literature from the ancients to the moderns, it is well
known that our calendar and most religious practices are ancient
Egyptian in origin.  In fact, so far back, that they are inscribed in
stone in the Ancient Egyptian Pyramids Texts circa 3000 BC, and the
Exodus from AE captivity is usually dated circa 700-600 BC. Indeed, a
lot of derivative literary stories find their origins back then, whether
or not one wishes to argue they originated in Egypt, Mesapotamia, the
Far East, or elsewhere in antiquity.  Whether or not we should call
those origins "pagan" seems to be shooting the messenger and ignoring
the message.

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 12:35:55 -0400
Subject: 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood
Comment:        RE: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

>It would be unseemly for a Jew to "knock on wood" for two reasons: one,
>because it's a pagan practice, and two, because it indulges in
>superstition (prohibited in Deuteronomy).

Oxymoronic prohibition if not hypocritical.  At least anticompetitive.

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Martin Steward <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Tuesday, 1 Jul 2003 21:02:07 +0100
Subject: Re: Knocking on Wood
Comment:        SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

On this issue of pagan rituals etc. surviving and being subsumed into
Christianity, see:

Lancleot Andrewes, A Summary View of the Government both of the Old and
New Testament..., Works VI, pp.341-342, 348-349, 355, 361.

Richard Hooker, Ecclesiastical Polity, Book VIII, Folger Library Works
III, pp.321-322

m

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           David Friedberg
 <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date:           Tuesday, 01 Jul 2003 20:54:42 -0400
Subject: 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1339 Re: Knocking on Wood

Matthew Baynham writes,

David also says, "A Christian cross as you know has one long stem". This
is not always the case. For example, the characteristic Celtic Christian
cross is within, or partly within, a circle which probably represents
the cosmos. (The circle, in this case, may well be of pagan origin,
though.)

The equal armed cross -- the Celtic, the Maltese, and the Cross of
Switzerland are probably derivations of  pagan symbols. The cross within
the circle is the astronomic as well as astrologic glyph for the Earth,
OTOH the long stemmed cross is always Christian.

David Friedberg

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, 
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.
 

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.