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Home :: Archive :: 2003 :: June ::
Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1210  Thursday, 19 June 2003

[1]     From:   Sam Small <
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        Date:   Monday, 16 Jun 2003 16:28:02 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

[2]     From:   Sean Lawrence <
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        Date:   Monday, 16 Jun 2003 13:51:48 -0300
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

[3]     From:   Edward Brown <
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        Date:   Monday, 16 Jun 2003 14:28:38 EDT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

[4]     From:   Al Magary <
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        Date:   Monday, 16 Jun 2003 11:32:34 -0700
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

[5]     From:   Arthur Lindley <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 17 Jun 2003 09:51:25 +0800 (SGT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

[6]     From:   Bill Lloyd <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 17 Jun 2003 07:36:41 EDT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sam Small <
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Date:           Monday, 16 Jun 2003 16:28:02 +0100
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

My congratulations to William Davis for an entertaining and brilliant
piece on English pronunciation.  I learned a lot.  With Hardy's
forbearance I would like to ask William about the reason Cockneys drop
their Hs. ('ead for head, etc.)  The prejudice is that they are lazy and
ignorant and are too idle to sound the "H".  Whereas similar working
class people from East Anglia - not 100 miles away - sound the "H" with
their own distinctive dialect.  Again, similar working class communities
in America sound the "H" too.  My theory is that the Cockney dialect was
Norman/French influenced - via the docks - which accounts for the lack
of leading "H" and trailing "T".

SAM SMALL
http://www.passioninpieces.co.uk

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sean Lawrence <
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Date:           Monday, 16 Jun 2003 13:51:48 -0300
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

David Lindley writes,

>I think, in the Wolverhampton accent
>of my youth, 'Wednesday' would similarly be almost 'Wendsdy'.

Listening to myself, I'd probably pronounce it rather similarly, though
I have an a-typical accent from Timmins, Ontario, also the home of
Shania Twain.

Cheers,
Sean.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Edward Brown <
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Date:           Monday, 16 Jun 2003 14:28:38 EDT
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

Carol Barton and Bill Arnold would not make fun of today's urban hip hop
argot. This educated Southerner does not appreciate their lame attempts
at corn pone humour.

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Al Magary <
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Date:           Monday, 16 Jun 2003 11:32:34 -0700
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

I understand that the locals have started to pronounce the name of their
town Pontefract, and "Pumfritt"/"Pomfret" are bygone.  What shall the
actors in Richard III do with that?

Wednesday and February:  An interesting thing about the extremely
inconsistent spelling in Hall's Chronicle (1550) is that, so far, he and
the typesetters have been quite consistent in spelling both words
correctly.

Now that I have been serious for two paragraphs, I must tell an old
joke.  Three little old deaf ladies from London are on a train
excursion.  They stop at a station and one looks out the window and
says, "It's Wembley."  The second says, "No, it's Thursday."  The third
says, "So am I.  Let's get off and have some tea."

Al Magary

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Arthur Lindley <
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Date:           Tuesday, 17 Jun 2003 09:51:25 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

The fair Shah-Nyy-YAH may sound southern, but she's from Windsor,
Ontario -- a reminder that country-music English is as frequently an
affectation as stage-Shakespearian English.

Arthur Lindley

>Carol Barton writes, "Why is 'Arkansas' AR-can-saw, and 'Kansas'
>KANZ-is, or 'Arab,' Alabama AY-rab (A hard as in hate) or 'Fayetteville'
>Fett-vull?  Why do Southerners put the AC-cent on the wrong sylLABLE (as
>in UM-brella, and IN-surance)?"
>
>Careful Carol, or Queen Shah-NYY-YAH of Suh-THUN Country Music, the
>CAP-Goddess, is "gonna GET-cha, GUUD!" :)

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Lloyd <
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Date:           Tuesday, 17 Jun 2003 07:36:41 EDT
Subject: 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly
Comment:        Re: SHK 14.1194 Re: Pronouncing Leicester Correctly

The pseudo-Shakespearean play Sir John Oldcastle opens with a brawl
between the Welsh Lord Powys and the Anglo-Welsh Lord Herbert and their
retainers.  The Sheriff arrives to break it up, shouting "Hold, in the
King's name, hold" and Powys' man Owen replies "Down i' the ka-nave's
name, down!"  [I'm regularizing the old and/or dialect spelling for
easier comprehension.] This is an example of the 'k' pronunciation of
'kn' surviving in the outlying areas of the English-speaking [or
English-mangling] world.

When Owen is brought before the Judge, his fellow Davy tries to bail him
out:

 Davy: Lord Judge, I would give you bail, good surety.
 Judge: What bail? what sureties?
 Davy: His cousin ap Rhys ap Evan ap Morris ap Morgan ap Llewellyn ap
Madoc ap Meredith ap Griffin ap Davy ap Owen ap Jenkin Jones.
 Judge: Two of the most sufficient are enough.
 Sheriff: An't please your Lordhip, these are all but one.

Owen is sent to jail...

Bill Lloyd

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