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Home :: Archive :: 2004 :: November ::
Jewish Shakespeare
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 15.2009  Wednesday, 24 November 2004

[1]     From:   Jack Heller <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 08:16:16 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

[2]     From:   Joachim Martillo <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 05:40:26 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

[3]     From:   Terence Hawkes <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 12:34:36 -0500
        Subj:   SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

[4]     From:   Stephen Dobbin <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 12:53:52 +0000 (GMT)
        Subj:   Jewish Shakespeare


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Jack Heller <
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Date:           Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 08:16:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

I will make one final posting on this thread before I ignore it
altogether: I ask that anyone interested in pursuing this line of
reasoning to search the SHAKSPER archives for postings by "Florence
Amit," a former member of the discussion board.

Is there really anything to add to this topic?

Heller

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Joachim Martillo <
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Date:           Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 05:40:26 EST
Subject: 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

Translations of portions of the Talmud into Latin were already available
by Shakespeare's time.

Shakespeare's lines, put in the mouth of Marcius (Coriolanus, Act 1, Sc. 1).

What's the matter,
That in these several places of the city
You cry against the noble senate, who,
Under the gods, keep you in awe, which else
Would feed on one another?

bear such a close resemblance to R. Hanina's words in Ab. III, 2, that
the suggestion has been made that the Poet was cognisant of them through
the Latin translation of Aboth by Paulus Fagius which was published in
1541 (see L. Kelner in the Hebrew periodical D'VIR, Berlin, 1923, vol.
1, p. 287). It is, however, quite probable that Shakespeare merely had
in his mind the scriptural verse:

If it had not been the Lord who was for us,
When men rose up against us,
Then they had swallowed us up alive,
When their wrath was kindled against us.
Ps. CXXIV, 2, 3.

Joachim Martillo

David Basch <
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 >In regard to the skeptical comment about the possibility of a Jewish
 >Shakespeare, what makes him possibly Jewish are the signs he left in his
 >work using Talmudic and Medrashic elements that are recognizable by
 >culturally trained Jews. Hence, if the Earl of Oxford wrote
 >Shakespeare's work, then we would have to confront that he was Jewish.
 >
 >In addition to communicating origins, these elements often turn out to
 >be pointers for meaning in some of the poet's plays.  For example, take
 >the Talmudic line, "What is mine is yours and what is yours in mine,"
 >located in the next-to-the-last line of Measure for Measure, would
 >indicate that the Duke was a foolish person since the Talmud asserts
 >that those who think like this are foolish. And when we examine the
 >play, we do find that the Duke erred in putting a moralist in charge
 >when he went on a trip and that he is superficial in thinking that
 >marriage provides a solution to relations between people.
 >
 >I would also note the presence Talmudic controversies in Hamlet. For
 >example, there is a Talmudic controversy about whether it is permissible
 >to use the testimony of an angel (or other heavenly being) in order to
 >settle a point of Talmudic law. The Rabbis concluded that it was not
 >permissible but that earthly evidence is needed. This controversy is
 >enacted in Hamlet's reaction to his father's ghost. Hamlet does not act
 >on the say so of this spook but tries to prove the case right here on
 >earth by the King's reaction to the play Hamlet stages. This is not the
 >only such controversy in Hamlet.
 >
 >While this knowledge alone does not absolutely prove Shakespeare was a
 >Jew, it sure shows he must have had intimate contact with Jewish
 >culture.  At the very least, this will have to be explained, as well as
 >what it was that the poet was trying to communicate with this abundant,
 >undeniable presence.
 >
 >And, by the way, it is not only the fact that certain Jewish ideas are
 >found -- some of these ideas do appear in other cultures too-but it is
 >the manner in which the ideas are presented in the poet's work that
 >follow the manner of the setting of the original in Judaic teaching.
 >These are things that ought to be explored to see what new insights
 >emerge, a fertile source for advancement of our understanding of the poet.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Terence Hawkes <
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Date:           Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 12:34:36 -0500
Subject: Jewish Shakespeare
Comment:        SHK 15.1997 Jewish Shakespeare

David Basch's proposals concerning 'the possibility of a Jewish
Shakespeare' have, surely, to be set against Adolf Hitler's evident
commitment to Stratford, as manifested in the Luftwaffe's bombing strategy.

Terence Hawkes

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Stephen Dobbin <
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Date:           Tuesday, 23 Nov 2004 12:53:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:        Jewish Shakespeare

Hey!

Just a long shot, but perhaps that world-famous playwright Shakespeare
got his "intimate contact with Jewish culture" from that medieval
religious bestseller the Bible!!

Whaddaya think!!!

I've heard that parts of the bible, especially the old testament,
contain cryptic, hidden and veiled references to Jewish culture!!!

How weird is that!!!!

And here's another thing. Has anyone noticed that 'dog' is 'God' spelled
backwards? I mean, is that freaky or what!!!!!

Yours faithfully
Dan Brown!!!!!!

Sorry, no. Slip of the pen. I meant Stephen Dobbin.

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