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Home :: Archive :: 2004 :: October ::
Greenblatt
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 15.1938  Tuesday, 26 October 2004

[1]     From:   Arthur Lindley <
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        Date:   Monday, 25 Oct 2004 22:12:13 +0800
        Subj:   RE: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

[2]     From:   Abigail Quart <
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        Date:   Monday, 25 Oct 2004 11:54:36 -0400
        Subj:   RE: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

[3]     From:   Robin Hamilton <
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        Date:   Monday, 25 Oct 2004 19:26:04 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

[4]     From:   Larry Weiss <
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        Date:   Monday, 25 Oct 2004 15:04:54 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Arthur Lindley <
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Date:           Monday, 25 Oct 2004 22:12:13 +0800
Subject: 15.1938 Greenblatt
Comment:        RE: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

Larry Weiss <
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 >The apparent association of Mariana with bed tricks raises an intriguing
 >idea.  Did certain names have conventional significance, a la the stock
 >characters in Commedia dell' Arte?  For example, did "Antonio" and
 >"Sebastian:" signal "homosexual"?

Probably not, since the word would not exist for another 200+ years.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Abigail Quart <
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Date:           Monday, 25 Oct 2004 11:54:36 -0400
Subject: 15.1938 Greenblatt
Comment:        RE: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

Ow, Larry. Can I second your request and add to it? Since I really
devoutly believe Shakespeare didn't use names accidentally or
haphazardly, but with great deliberation, the name
Antony/Anthony/Antonio has always stuck in my craw because name books
don't have a good definition for it. The only thing I ever found that
Shakespeare MIGHT have associated with the name was "tantony pig."

"Tantony Pig" is an old English derogatory term for someone who blindly,
but fleetingly, follows others. "Tantony" is a middle ages contraction
of "St. Anthony" and relates to the story of Saint Anthony (= St. Antony
without an "h" in U.S. English) who is the Patron Saint of Pigs.
http://www.pighealth.com/reviews/tantony.htm

Now, when I did a quick search of the plays, "pig" is associated with
"spit."

Sebastion is the Saint who got stuck with all those arrows.

I think you're on to something. Is this backed up? Can anyone blow this
out of the water?

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <
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Date:           Monday, 25 Oct 2004 19:26:04 +0100
Subject: 15.1938 Greenblatt
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

Larry Weiss <
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 >

 >The apparent association of Mariana with bed tricks raises an intriguing
 >idea.  Did certain names have conventional significance, a la the stock
 >characters in Commedia dell' Arte?  For example, did "Antonio" and
 >"Sebastian:" signal "homosexual"?

There's certainly (now) an association of Saint Seb of the Arrows and a
homosexual perspective, but I don't know when this originated.

As for "Antonio" -- there's the Antonio/Bassanio link in Merchant which
can be argued to have at least an homoerotic subtext, as well as
Antonio/Sebastian in 12thN.

Both plays (possibly) overlapping the period of composition of the Sonnets.

The common element (if it is one) is that in all three cases --
Merchant, 12thN, and the Sonnets -- you have a relationship
(homoerotic?) between an older man and a
younger-man-of-a-higher-social-class.

The use of the name "Antonio" has always intrigued me in this context,
but it seems more of a private association on Shakespeare's part than
the more public (possible) resonances of "Sebastian".

Or in the same time-frame (1598-1600 ... ish) Rosalind-as-Ganymede in AYLI.

Robin Hamilton

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <
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Date:           Monday, 25 Oct 2004 15:04:54 -0400
Subject: 15.1938 Greenblatt
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1938 Greenblatt

 >In the final act, Maria is absent. It seems to me that to see Maria just
 >as a generic amusing servant/social climber is not to see her fully.

This suggests that that the actor who played Maria doubled as Sebastian.

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