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Home :: Archive :: 2004 :: July ::
CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 15.1392  Tuesday, 6 July 2004

[1]     From:   Bill Arnold <
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        Date:   Monday, 5 Jul 2004 06:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

[2]     From:   Pat Dolan <
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        Date:   Monday, 5 Jul 2004 09:24:07 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

[3]     From:   Fran Teague <
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        Date:   Monday, 5 Jul 2004 10:34:24 -0400
        Subj:   Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

[4]     From:   Don Bloom <
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        Date:   Tuesday, 6 Jul 2004 00:12:58 -0500
        Subj:   RE: SHK 15.1380 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <
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Date:           Monday, 5 Jul 2004 06:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

Larry Weiss writes, "I find myself in the odd position (for me) of
agreeing wholeheartedly with Bill Arnold and disagreeing with T. Hawkes,
who said: Why do some of our colleagues assume that 'clarity' in
language is a free-floating, essential and transhistorical quality? ...
Its avid pursuit is usually the last resort of fools and scoundrels."

OK: that was *wise* of you to admit, Monsieur Weiss!  And I take
compliments anyway I can get them, even if they are back-handed.  And
now that you have joined the ranks of agreeing with a lucid professor of
English, you should no longer have to feel *odd* at all.  We are Alice
in Wonderland, here on SHAKSPER.  As you recall, it was *only* Alice in
Wonderland who was *lucid* while others were *obscure*!  The more
appropriate adjective for you to attach to yourself among professor of
lucid English would be *lucid* with all its proper lexical meanings.  It
is as simple as that, lucid speaks, lexically.  Socio-psycho-babble
comes from the bastions of socio-psychology which has a dearth of
meaning to express about dry facts they mangle with their bizarre prose
and I could never appreciate their gobbledygook, and never shall.  It is
*not* lucid!

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Pat Dolan <
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Date:           Monday, 5 Jul 2004 09:24:07 -0500
Subject: 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

Hey folks,

Terence Hawkes did not say that "clarity is bad business." What he
implied was that "clear" frequently means, "sounds like me and people
like me," and "opaque" frequently means, "We don't need to think about
it." Clarity has its place, but it's not the only value out there, even
in non-fiction prose. Hawkes asked a perfectly reasonable question, it
seems to me.

Which leads us to a Shakespearean pedagogical question: When your
students whine that Shakespeare is unclear and "he uses way more words
than he needs to make his point," what do you say?

Cheers,
Pat

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Fran Teague <
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Date:           Monday, 5 Jul 2004 10:34:24 -0400
Subject: 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada
Comment:        Re: SHK 15.1387 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

The recent comments begging for "clarity" in critical discussions
reminds me of the arguments I have heard students make when they ask why
they cannot read Shakespeare in translation for the sake of clarity.
The passage that has elicited so much scorn seemed clear enough to me,
although I did not think it was aimed at the general reader.

Fran Teague
http://www.english.uga.edu/~fteague

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Don Bloom <
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Date:           Tuesday, 6 Jul 2004 00:12:58 -0500
Subject: 15.1380 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada
Comment:        RE: SHK 15.1380 CFP - Shakespearean Intertexts in Canada

  Terence Hawkes writes

 >"Why do some of our colleagues assume that 'clarity' in language is a
 >free-floating, essential and transhistorical quality? By and large it
 >consists of  a number of tricks of style validated for the purpose by
 >particular social groupings at specific times. Its avid pursuit is
 >usually the last resort of fools and scoundrels."

Once again I must question the redoubtable Hawkes. It is all very well
to question facile definitions of "clarity in language" but does that
mean that all language is equally clear? That there is no such thing as
clarity? That we must accept that which is turgid, convoluted, obscure,
deceitful, stupid, and simply crappy just because definitions of that
which is not are socially specific?

I grant that there is much to be said (logically) for mandating such an
acceptance, but the necessary results are appalling. And where will that
leave TH the next time he wishes to tear into one of the participants on
the list who has written something deserving of tearing into?

Cheers,
don

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