2005

The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0159  Wednesday, 26 January 2005

[1]     From:   D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 10:47:15 -0600
        Subj:   RE: SHK 16.0143 The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors

[2]     From:   Martin Steward <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 18:45:47 -0000
        Subj:   SHK 16.0143 The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors

[3]     From:   Michael B. Luskin <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 11:01:50 EST
        Subj:   sense of sight


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 10:47:15 -0600
Subject: 16.0143 The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors
Comment:        RE: SHK 16.0143 The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors

Two comments: First, let's please withdraw the idea of "Third World"
which I innocently, but stupidly, used. It is simply too volatile a
term, and evidently does not convey what I was talking about.

Second: The scents of London in Shakespeare's time would presumably
result from garbage (food waste), dead animals, and human and animal
excrement - and not of industrial pollution which we find in much of the
modern world.

These former items are less familiar to us because of organized,
tax-funded disposal that attempts to keep them out of our yards,
streets, creeks, rivers and harbors, and dispose of them in ways that
primarily reduce their danger as epidemic-producing agents, but also
(incidentally) keep their aromas out of our noses.

Cities, which are mainly responsible for this process, have had various
levels of success with this idea. But I believe the European cities of
Shakespeare's time were remarkably backward in this regard, as compared
to some cities of antiquity and also to some cities contemporary with
them. (Does anyone have authentic information on this subject?)

Can we thus guess at what London would smell like by our encounters with
contemporary cities whose disposal systems are less than ideal and thus
more like London's?

Cheers,
don

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Martin Steward <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 18:45:47 -0000
Subject: The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors
Comment:        SHK 16.0143 The Renaissance Horse": A Call for Contributors

In response to Hawkes's, "Subtle and complex communicative modes
involving a different ordering of all the senses--including smell--were
undoubtedly a feature of the culture which produced Shakespeare," Bill
Godshawlk contends, Hawkes-like, that "'Undoubtedly' is a word that
should not be in our critical jargon."

But just as important as "undoubtedly" is the word following it - the
indefinite, rather than the definite, article.

As such, Hawkes's statement does not ask us to accept that "Subtle and
complex communicative modes involving a different ordering of all the
senses" was the defining feature of the culture that produced Shakespeare.

However, one must then wonder whether or not the statement says anything
much at all. After all, "Subtle and complex communicative modes
involving a different ordering of all the senses" are undoubtedly a
feature of the culture that produced Robert Parker.

It all feels a bit fishy to me, if that's the expression.

m

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael B. Luskin <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 11:01:50 EST
Subject:        sense of sight

 >The decisive privileging of the sense of
  >sight-a consequence of the development of literacy--
  >is a relatively recent development.

Many anthropologists believe that sight is the most important of our
senses, and that a great deal of human evolution was sight related.
Sight would not have evolved into the incredibly complex and ubiquitous
sense that it is, across cultures, across species, if it were not more
valuable and hence more selected for than anything else.

Michael B. Luskin

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Macbeth Characters

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0158  Wednesday, 26 January 2005

From:           Bruce Richman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 13:49:14 -0600
Subject: 16.0145 Macbeth Characters
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0145 Macbeth Characters

If John Reed is suggesting that the Porter and the Third Murderer are
one, I would encourage him to re-read the venerable Harold Goddard. The
Third Murderer is Macbeth himself.

Bruce Richman
Columbia, Missouri

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Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0156  Wednesday, 26 January 2005

[1]     From:   Colin Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 08:10:56 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

[2]     From:   Alan Horn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 01:12:34 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

[3]     From:   Alan Horn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 01:12:34 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Colin Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 08:10:56 -0800
Subject: 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

 >An article in the Daily Telegraph on Tuesday 25th January,
 >"Shakespeare's Bottom pinched by Levi admen", describes how Midsummer
 >Night's Dream has been expropriated for a television advert.

I have not seen the article, but I have first hand experience of this
commercial. Many of the Will & Company actors were auditioned for the
part, the African-American actors in the company that is. Unlike the
Levi rep, the casting directors were quite insulting as to their faith
in young people to handle the language!! Having done this play umpteen
times with umpteen groups of nine and ten year olds, throughout
California, I have seen, with my own eyes, children's ability to grasp
these plots, often at a far more comprehensive level than many casting
directors I know!!

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Alan Horn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 01:06:57 EST
Subject: 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

 From the Telegraph article: "In the ad, Bottom exits a factory walking
past a gang of older men wearing unfashionably high-waisted jeans. One
of the men says, 'Bottom, thou art changed, what do I see on thee?', as
he grabs Bottom's loose fit 501s. The focus switches to Titania, a
waitress sweeping up in a cafe, who says: 'What angel wakes me from my
flowery bed?' She is mysteriously drawn out on to the street towards
Bottom, exclaiming, 'Mine eye is enthralled to thy shape.' The ad ends
with Titiana whispering to Bottom: 'I love thee.'"

In the play, of course, Bottom's transformation is grotesque and Titania
is magically manipulated to fall for him. Are people supposed to get the
irony?  Does the ad contain a self-mocking critique of consumerism? Or
is the play being reinterpreted and revalued?

By the way, has anyone seen it? Is it available online? Will it play in
the US as well?

Alan

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Alan Horn <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 01:12:34 EST
Subject: 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0139 Shakespeare's Bottom Pinched

More from the article: "'For a period in the late Nineties denim became
unfashionable,' said Louise Foster, of the fashion trade magazine
Draper's Record.  '501s - Levi's flagship brand - in particular suffered
from the so-called "Jeremy Clarkson effect," the association with men in
middle youth. But when demand for denim returned Levi's found itself
caught between cheap jeans and cooler, more expensive designer brands
such as Diesel.'"

Perhaps Shakespeare is only there to offset the racial theme-a white guy
dissociates himself from his square, older white peers by putting on a
hiphop fashion accessory (baggy jeans) and ends up attracting a sexy
black girl (see photo with article). The admakers want to make the brand
a little black to make it hipper and younger. But not too black-hence
the high culture frame.

Alan

_______________________________________________________________
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Shakespeare and the Invention of Metaphor and

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0157  Wednesday, 26 January 2005

From:           David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 11:44:17 -0500
Subject: 16.0134 Shakespeare and the Invention of Metaphor and
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0134 Shakespeare and the Invention of Metaphor and
Language

 >>Tim Carroll believes the genius of Shakespeare comes when he goes
 >>beyond [synaesthetic] sense metaphors to ones which involve links to
 >>more abstract ideas.
 >
 >While Shakespeare undoubtedly had an individual, biological genius, the
 >particular process discussed has a strong connection to general currents
 >of sixteenth-century English history.

Tim Carroll and Douglas Galbi want us to suppose that there is something
either personally or historically unique about the metaphoric language
in Shakespeare. Modern cognitive science, however, is busy demonstrating
that making metaphors-and especially using metaphors to relate our
individual experience to recurrent natural and social phenomena as
perceived and reported by others ("links to more abstract ideas") is a
fundamental human mental activity. From the literary angle see
especially the work of Mark Turner (*The Literary Mind*, *Death is the
mother of Beauty*) and Gilles Fauconier (*The Way we Think*), which
offer good introductions. Shakespeare may have been particularly good at
doing it; early modern Europeans put formal training in rhetoric at the
center of their educational theory and practice. But the process itself,
if the cognitive chaps are right, belongs to all of us.

David Evett

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Who Got to a Nunnery?

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0155  Wednesday, 26 January 2005

[1]     From:   D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 09:12:55 -0600
        Subj:   RE: SHK 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?

[2]     From:   Natalie Bennett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 02:35:36 +0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 25 Jan 2005 09:12:55 -0600
Subject: 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?
Comment:        RE: SHK 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?

The first part of Todd Pettigrew's question still interests me (how
often did early modern women get sent off to nunneries?). This, as Peter
Bridgman points out, ceased to be an issue in England when the nunneries
ceased to exist during HVIII's reign, though they had been a convenient
place to stash disobedient daughters, inconvenient ex-queens and the
like. But the idea of compelled enrollment in a convent remained alive
as a myth for several centuries, along with the dismal punishments
recalcitrant girls might receive for rebelling against unwanted
discipline and isolation.

To re-state my interest:

Does anyone know what percentage of women who joined nunneries up
through, say, 1800 were compelled to do so by their families -- even as
a guess?

Has anyone studied the mythology of compulsory enrollment, its
appearance in romantic literature, and its relationship to anti-Catholic
(in Protestant areas) and anti-clerical (in Catholic ones) attitudes?

Cheers,
don

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Natalie Bennett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 26 Jan 2005 02:35:36 +0000
Subject: 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0140 Who Got to a Nunnery?

And there would, I suspect, have been considerable hostility to the
concept, in line with general anti-clericalism. Certainly a bit later,
when Mary Astell suggested, in _A Serious Proposal to the Ladies_
(1694/97) a secular retreat for women in which they could, without the
presence of men, teach, study and live, it attracted considerable
hostility as a "papist" idea.

Natalie Bennett
London
http://philobiblion.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

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