2005

Words Ending in eth/th

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0610  Thursday, 31 March 2005

From:           Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 13:26:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 16.0593 Words Ending in eth/th
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0593 Words Ending in eth/th

John Briggs  wrote, "If you are going to peddle this sort of nonsense,
you at least have some obligation to consider previous translations."

Excuse me?  Your *politeness* is underwhelming!  My response was about
the subject line "Words Ending in eth/th" and not about my book.  I have
already responded at length about Shakespeare and the KJV question:
consult the SHAKSPER archives.  There is a search function, courtesy of
Hardy.

But just for you, a non-reader, I quote from the back of my book: "Did
Will Shakespeare translate the Psalms?  The mystery of the 'Shake-spear'
signature in Job and Psalms of the King James Version of the Bible is
explored at length.  History of the Bible is recounted from the remote
manuscripts in Greek and Latin up to the English translations at the
height of the Shakespearean Age."

Obviously, you have not read JESUS: The Gospel According To Will.
Should you choose to fire off more nonsense about things you know
nothing about, then you might as well educate yourself about a book you
have not read, and you might get it and then find I have covered all the
aspects you allege I have not.  Go to:

http://anoldbooklook.com

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

A Claudius Question

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0609  Thursday, 31 March 2005

[1]     From:   Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 17:30:28 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0595 A Claudius Question

[2]     From:   Edmund Taft <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 11:30:33 -0500
        Subj:   A Claudius Question


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 17:30:28 +0100
Subject: 16.0595 A Claudius Question
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0595 A Claudius Question

Abigail Quart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

 >"popped between the election and
 >[Hamlet's] hopes."
 >
 >"Hopes." Not "crown." Hamlet doesn't have a very present vision of
 >himself as king.

The crucial moment is when Hamlet, after his return from his voyage to
England, says:  "This is I, Hamlet the Dane" (5.1), asserting his-in
whatever terms -- status as the *legitimate* ruler of Denmark.

Before this, he is, in his own view, Hamlet the private person (bipolar
or otherwise); after this he is (whether acknowledged or not) the
authentic ruler of Denmark.

Cut it how you like-electoral monarchy vs. primogeniture and all the
rest-Shakespeare throws a switch-kick in the play, downplaying
[dramatically] Hamlet's right to the throne at the beginning, and
fronting it at the end.

More drama than legality, seems to me.

Robin Hamilton

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Edmund Taft <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 11:30:33 -0500
Subject:        A Claudius Question

Abigail Quart writes: "I don't actually believe Hamlet was bipolar. I
think Shakespeare deals with that condition in another play. But
Ophelia's speech isn't a bad description of the onset of mental illness
in a young man."

And, of course, her own mental state is rapidly deteriorating as well.
It's strange that more emphasis has not been put on why these two young
people suffer so, mentally. Ophelia goes crazy, and Hamlet, by Act 5,
may be crazy too.

It's their fathers who are to blame, right? What if Hamlet is not so
much about great metaphysical questions after all? What if it is an
example of the older generation (especially a generation of fathers)
abusing and misusing the younger generation: old Hamlet/young Hamlet;
Polonius/Ophelia; Claudius/Laertes and Hamlet? Fortinbras is a special
case. Interstingly, his father apparently does NOT come back from the
dead, so he is free of Hamlet's burden. Claudius tries to influence him
through Old Norway, but what is actually achieved is a bit unclear, as
it's hard to know what Fortinbras is really up to in the latter part of
the play. But he is the "winner," and he is different from most of  the
other members of the younger generation in that he seems uninfluenced by
a malign father or father figure. Horatio also survives, and he too
lacks a father or father figure trying to manipulate him.

Some (idle?) thoughts.

Ed Taft

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Representations of the Living

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0607  Thursday, 31 March 2005

[1]     From:   Jack Heller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 15:46:28 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living

[2]     From:   Duncan Salkeld <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 19:49:20 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living

[3]     From:   Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Mar 2005 00:09:10 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Jack Heller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 15:46:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 16.0589 Representations of the Living
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living

What a diverse list of plays the representations of the living present.
It doesn't seem that such representations form any kind of
easily-identifiable dramatic tradition. My thanks, in any case, for the
replies. I will go back to Aristophanes.

Jack Heller

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Duncan Salkeld <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 19:49:20 +0100
Subject: 16.0589 Representations of the Living
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living

The most obvious Shakespearean example, as many will be aware, is the
famous reference to Essex in the fifth Chorus (only in F), though it is
merely an allusion, not a 'representation'. Probably unconnected with
Henry V, an order from the Privy Council, dated 10 May 1601, records the
following: 'we do understand that certaine players that use to recyte
their playes at the Curtaine in Moorefeildes do represent upon the stage
in their interludes the persons of some gentlemen of good desert and
quallity that are yet alive under obscure manner, but yet in such sort
as all the hearers may take notice both of the matter and the persons
that are meant thereby' [Chambers, ES, IV, 332]. It is possible that
Henry V was played at the Curtain and not the Globe, but Essex was
emphatically not 'of good desert' in May 1601 (he'd been executed on
21st February) and the libellous play remains unknown.

Hitherto similarly unknown is the person alluded to in scene five of
Jonson's Bartholomew Fair (1614). Wasp turns on Mistress Overdo, saying,
'Good Lord!  How sharp you are, with being at Bedlam yesterday!
Whetstone has set an edge upon you, has he?' (1.5.22-23). In an article
forthcoming (I am informed) June 2005 in Review of English Studies, I
show that this Whetstone was a notorious lunatic at Bethlem, first
arrested in 1606 'for a vagrant turbulent fellow and usuall raylinge in
the church against preachers'. An order the following year places him
with friends in the Strand. A census of inmates at Bethlem, taken by the
Governors on 28 June 1624 records that, 'William Whetston hath been here
about 18 yeares & is fitt to be kepte; was sent from the Court' [i.e.
the Court of Bridewell].  He died the following year aged 35. Further
details are in my article (here shamelessly plugged) which focuses
mainly on a prosecution of Christopher Beeston for rape in 1602.
Something of the case, though it is difficult to specify exactly what,
seems to underlie parts of Measure for Measure. As critics have often
noted, contemporary allusion was more Jonson's style than Shakespeare's,
but the cryptic reference to 'Yaughan' in Hamlet (V.1.60, only in F) may
be another example.

Duncan Salkeld
University College Chichester

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Mar 2005 00:09:10 -0500
Subject: 16.0589 Representations of the Living
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0589 Representations of the Living

Henry IV of France, who was Navarre in Marlowe's "Massacre at Paris" and
assumed the throne at the end of the play, was the reigning French
monarch when that play was written (c. 1592).  He died in 1610.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Shakespeare's Personal Faith

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0608  Thursday, 31 March 2005

[1]     From:   Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 13:45:48 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0594 Shakespeare's Personal Faith

[2]     From:   Terence Hawkes <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 31 Mar 2005 05:35:56 -0500
        Subj:   SHK 16.0594 Shakespeare's Personal Faith


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 13:45:48 -0500
Subject: 16.0594 Shakespeare's Personal Faith
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0594 Shakespeare's Personal Faith

 >Gerard Hopkins?

Gerard Manley Hopkins doesn't count, any more than Mary Baker Eddy,
Aimee Semple MacPherson or David Basch.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Terence Hawkes <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 31 Mar 2005 05:35:56 -0500
Subject: Shakespeare's Personal Faith
Comment:        SHK 16.0594 Shakespeare's Personal Faith

We can know a great deal about what a text says. We cannot know the
degree to which a text establishes, guarantees or gives access to what
its author personally believes.  For one thing, how could the truth of
such a claim ever, with certainty, be proved?  For another, it leaves
entirely out of account the act of writing itself which, far from
transparently giving utterance to the writer's innermost state of mind,
notoriously imposes its own bending, shaping devices upon it. Whatever
authors think, writing also writes. In the case of Shakespeare, this
means that whilst it may be profitable at any crucial point to ask what
the play is saying, it is both pointless and naive to ask what the Bard
is thinking or believing. As for speculation about the beliefs or
thoughts of specific characters in the play, that remains the last
resort of a long-discredited realism, the bane of our depleted culture.

T. Hawkes

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Shakespeare Statistics?

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0606  Thursday, 31 March 2005

From:           Marina Tarlinskaya <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 30 Mar 2005 09:20:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 16.0590 Shakespeare Statistics?
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0590 Shakespeare Statistics?

And I am writing a book on Shakespeare's Apocrypha based on verse form
analyses--stress profiles, enclitic phrases (this is MY invention!),
word boundary distribution, position of strong syntactic breaks in the
line, types of line endings, the use of "rhythmical figures" for
semantic purposes, and more. And for those who have not seen my first
book on Shakespeare ("Shakespeare's Verse" Peter Lang 1987) I have about
30 copies left, and may mail it to anyone interested, for 25 dollars, as
Ward says, "it's a steal." Send a check to:

Marina Tarlinskaja
1505 Arboretum Place E.,
Seattle WA 98112.

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Search

Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.