2005

Words Ending in eth/th

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0551  Thursday, 24 March 2005

[1]     From:   William Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 13:06:53 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th

[2]     From:   Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Thursday, 24 Mar 2005 08:56:32 +1100
        Subj:   RE: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th

[3]     From:   Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 19:34:51 -0800 (PST)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           William Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 13:06:53 -0500
Subject: 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th

Randy sends me the following clarification of his conclusion:

"I think it safer to say that we don't know how the examples were
pronounced, but a strong case can be made for the spelling's not
dictating the pronunciation and the number of syllables-but merely the
grammar."

Quoting Randy McLeod, I remain, yours,
Bill Godshalk

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter Groves <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Thursday, 24 Mar 2005 08:56:32 +1100
Subject: 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th
Comment:        RE: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th

Apparently Randall McLeod (according to William Godshalk) has "opined
that in Eliz times, the spelling [<eth>/<[e]s>] may not have specified
the number of syllables"

Surely the issue here is whether forms ending in <eth>function in the
metre in a syllabically distinct way to those in <s>(leaving aside verbs
ending in a sibilant, where the choice would make no difference, as in
"Sin of self-love possesseth all mine eye")

The answer is that they clearly do.  To take a very few of the thousands
of possible instances:

That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
Where wasteful time debateth with decay
As after sunset fadeth in the west,
My most true mind thus maketh mine untrue.
And in abundance addeth to his store,
Who hateth thee that I do call my friend,
Beauty provoketh thieves sooner than gold.
The sight of lovers feedeth those in love.
Would, like the spring that turneth wood to stone,
So much she doteth on her Mortimer
The number of the King exceedeth ours.
The bird of dawning singeth all night long

"Modernize" these examples and you have a collection of unmetrical lines:

*That this huge stage presents nought but shows
  *Where wasteful time debates with decay
  *As after sunset fades in the west,
  *My most true mind thus makes mine untrue.
  *And in abundance adds to his store,
  *Who hates thee that I do call my friend,
  *Beauty provokes thieves sooner than gold.
  *The sight of lovers feeds those in love.
  *Would, like the spring that turns wood to stone,
  *So much she dotes on her Mortimer
  *The number of the King exceeds ours.
*The bird of dawning sings all night long;

Peter Groves

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 19:34:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0540 Words Ending in eth/th

William Godshalk writes, "I got this response from Randy McLeod offline:
In Arnold's "The Hayswater Boat", he says "moves" and "moveth" in the
same line, and unless you pronounce the first as a mono-syllable and the
second as a disyllable, the meter won't work."

I made similar observations in my 2002 book JESUS: The Gospel According
To Will.  For example, the KJV reads "He mak-eth me lie down..." and
that is two syllables, whereas "He makes me..." is one.  Clearly, from
my view, Shakespearean Age eth endings allowed for the creation of extra
beats in poetics lines of blank verse.

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
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Character Ages

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0550  Thursday, 24 March 2005

From:           Steve Sohmer <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 13:04:58 -0500
Subject: 16.0528 Character Ages
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0528 Character Ages

Dear Mark,

Shakespeare's 30ish men? Well, let's see. Off the top of my head, Hamlet
is 30 ... but he's fat and he sweats. The Antipholi and their servants
are 34. King John was 32 when he sallied into France. Richard III was 33
when he lost his horse and kingdom to Henry Tudor (who was 28). Henry V
was 35 when he came home from France in a box (this is not a speaking
part). And Iago claimed to be 28 ... but he lied.

Hope this helps.

Steve

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CFP: Early Modern Readers and Audiences

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0548  Thursday, 24 March 2005

From:           Terri Bourus <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 12:13:49 -0500
Subject:        CFP: Early Modern Readers and Audiences

Call for Papers:

Midwest Modern Language Association
47th Annual Conference
November 10-13, 2005
The Pfister Hotel
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Conference Theme: "History, Memory, Exile."

Session on Bibliography and Textual Research:
"The Audiences of London's Playhouses and the Bookbuyers of St. Paul's:
Readers in Early Modern England."

This seminar will address how and why Early Modern Dramatic texts were
printed from London's playhouse manuscripts. Recent textual scholarship
is now focusing on the concept that playwrights such as Shakespeare
wrote, not only for a playhouse audience, but for a book buying public
as well. Papers that address the history of authorship, printing,
marketing, manuscript acquisition, and private patronage are welcome.

Abstracts of 300 words should be submitted to: Terri Bourus
(This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.).

Extended deadline: 15 May 2005

_______________________________________________________________
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The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
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Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival's Much Ado

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0549  Thursday, 24 March 2005

From:           William Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Wednesday, 23 Mar 2005 13:23:32 -0500
Subject:        Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival's Much Ado

The Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival's production of Much Ado About
Nothing opens:

March 24 - April 17, 2005
Thursdays - Saturdays at 7:30pm
Sundays at 2:00pm
(There will not be a performance on Sunday March 27, 2005)

For tickets call our Box Office at 513-381-BARD or at the theatre
719 Race Street, between 7th and Garfield
Downtown Cincinnati

Terry Hawkes has been given a special invitation including free room and
board, and as much Guinness as he needs to get through the ordeal of
actually watching a live production of a play.

Bill Godshalk

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
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The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

A Claudius Question

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0547  Wednesday, 23 March 2005

[1]     From:   William Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 13:19:12 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

[2]     From:   Colin Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 10:19:42 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

[3]     From:   Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 17:06:03 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

[4]     From:   Abigail Quart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
        Date:   Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 20:16:03 -0500
        Subj:   RE: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           William Godshalk <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 13:19:12 -0500
Subject: 16.0537 A Claudius Question
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

 >Bill Arnold writes ad hominem to Ed Taft:
 >
 >First of all, I find it hard to imagine you driving a semi anywhere .
. . .

Perhaps Bill Arnold could rectify this failure of the imagination if he
got to know Ed. I will say no more.

Bill Godshalk

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Colin Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 10:19:42 -0800
Subject: 16.0537 A Claudius Question
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

 >Hamlet, as the rightful king (for Claudius's murder of King Hamlet has
 >debarred him from rightful succession), has not only the right but the
 >duty to punish murderers.

Who's to say Hamlet is the 'rightful' king? This is pre-primogeniture;
Claudius as the brother probably has more rights to the throne and
Gertrude certainly isn't in a hurry, or rather is in a big hurry to not
see her son on the throne.

Colin Cox

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Larry Weiss <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 17:06:03 -0500
Subject: 16.0537 A Claudius Question
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

 >Hamlet, as the rightful king (for Claudius's murder of King Hamlet has
 >debarred him from rightful succession), has not only the right but the
 >duty to punish murderers.

Hamlet was no more the "rightful king" than John Kerry is the rightful
president.  The kingship was elective; Hamlet lost.

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Abigail Quart <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:           Tuesday, 22 Mar 2005 20:16:03 -0500
Subject: 16.0537 A Claudius Question
Comment:        RE: SHK 16.0537 A Claudius Question

D. Bloom: Polonius? What was that? Manslaughter?

JW Kennedy: Denmark wasn't under a primogeniture system, was it? The
king was elected from among the nobles. The same system that was in
force in Scotland until Duncan decided to go English, altered it by
announcing Malcolm was the Prince of Cumberland and heir apparent, and
pissed off Macbeth who was king-eligible under the original system.
Hamlet was neither the "rightful" nor designated heir. Otherwise, the
death of the king from assumed natural causes would have simply led to
Hamlet being sent for to assume the throne. Wouldn't it? Since no one
suspected anything was wrong?

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.

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