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Home :: Archive :: 2005 :: May ::
Shakespeare's Biblical References
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.0957  Friday, 20 May 2005

[1]     From:   John Briggs <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 May 2005 17:34:54 +0100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References

[2]     From:   Joseph Egert <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 May 2005 22:31:16 +0000
        Subj:   SHK 16.0914 Shakespeare's Biblical References

[3]     From:   Bill Arnold <
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        Date:   Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
        Subj:   Re: SHK 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           John Briggs <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 May 2005 17:34:54 +0100
Subject: 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References

Peter Bridgman wrote:

 >John Briggs writes ...
 >
 >An additional
 >hazard is that nearly all copies of "Douay-Rheims" that are available
 >are of Bishop Challoner's 18th-century revision - where he imported
 >wording from the KJV!
 >
 >
 >The original Douay-Rheims is very hard to find.  The following site
 >claims to have the original 1582 Rheims NT, but the spelling has
 >unfortunately been modernised ....
 >
 >http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rheims/browse.html

No, I'm pretty certain that's Challoner's version - as are all such
online texts.

John Briggs

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Joseph Egert <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 May 2005 22:31:16 +0000
Subject: Shakespeare's Biblical References
Comment:        SHK 16.0914 Shakespeare's Biblical References

To Al Magary on his upcoming edition of HALL'S CHRONICLE:

Why not tie in passages from Hall to quotes from Shakespeare, then link
those with their closest Bible counterparts. More work but more glory.


Regards,
Joe Egert

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Bill Arnold <
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Date:           Thursday, 19 May 2005 20:45:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References
Comment:        Re: SHK 16.0943 Shakespeare's Biblical References

John Briggs writes, "I think Bill Arnold has illustrated my point.  As
not even Bill Arnold would claim that Shakespeare wrote the King James
Bible *before* LLL, wouldn't it make more sense to use quotations from
an earlier translation?"

Peter Bridgman writes, "The original Douay-Rheims is very hard to find.
The following site claims to have the original 1582 Rheims NT, but the
spelling has unfortunately been modernised ....
http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rheims/browse.html"

John, I think Peter answered your point very well.  I have already put
into Hardy's archives here on SHAKSPER my point about this matter and
covered these matters extensively in my book, but will say briefly:

I used the KJV as it is the Shakespearean Age Bible and it is readily
accessible, useful for its poetic beauty as well for those well attuned
to Will Shakespeare's words.  Beauty never hurts in these matters, to
misparaphrase Keats!  The Catholic Bible was done on the Continent and
is less relevant to the Shakespearean Age.  There are significant
differences between the major precursors to the KJV, namely the
Great/Geneva and others which all three borrowed upon.  I make note in
passing in my book with Psalm 23 and John 3:16 about these matters.  In
the end, in my scholarly opinion, the differences are as noted in the
famous fictional piece on the matter by Kipling, and that is one of
poetic beauty!  The questions of *translation* are really scholarly
questions, and open to significant debate in *Christology* circles
inasmuch as there were no dictionaries to consult on the meanings of
certain words in dispute: for instance, the word *Spirit* in most
detailed *Christology* books clearly show the mutiplicity of meanings
which can be attached to the word in terms of connotation, and yet some
wish to use individual connotations as denotative to the exclusion of
others.  If you go to any one text, indeed, you are stuck with the
translators's denotative choice, but if as a scholar you go to the
*Christology* and study, some, then you can come away with a broader
appreciation of the hard task any translator works under.  I will end in
noting that the texts used for the Bibles in question are based on a
Greek text.  Indeed, scholars know that Old Testament texts are found in
Hebrew, and so many other languages that I wont repeat them all here.
We are talking ancient texts extant.  Textual questions would swamp
Hardy, and he hardly needs that. I cite the major texts in my book.
What is needed is that we SHAKSPEReans accept *how* all this applies to
Shakespeare, in the final analysis.  That is why I suggested a first
reading for most would be Shaheen's introduction to his voluminous
*Biblical References in Shakespeare's Plays.*

Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm

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