The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.1876 Monday, 14 November 2005
[1] From: Donald Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 13:26:30 -0600
Subj: RE: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
[2] From: Sally Drumm <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 14:28:11 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
[3] From: Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 19:48:45 -0800 (PST)
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
[4] From: John-Paul Spiro <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Monday, 14 Nov 2005 09:59:41 -0500
Subj: RE: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Donald Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 13:26:30 -0600
Subject: 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Comment: RE: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
It's been a while since I had to quibble with Ed Taft, so I guess it's
time again. He writes: "Revenge, even when it misfires, MUST be an act
of pure, unthinking aggression, for no thinking person would carry it
out, given the inevitable consequences, both for the agressee and the
aggressor."
If he means what he seems to mean, it simply does not square with
reality. People commit acts of revenge with malice aforethought all the
time-planning and enacting them with great (and sometimes gleeful) care.
When Claudius says to Laertes, " . . . what would you vndertake / To
showe your selfe indeede your fathers sonne / More then in words?,"
Laertes responds, "To cut his thraot i'th Church." To this the
King.replies, "No place indeede should murther sanctuarise, / Reuendge
should haue no bounds . . ."
Laertes is overflowing with murderous rancor toward Hamlet, but he is
thinking about the best way to kill the prince (no small issue, as the
latter is still the heir of Denmark), and agrees to the King's sneaky
plot because he thinks it will allow him to get away with it. He may a
little stupid, but he is not insane, even temporarily.
Cheers,
don
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sally Drumm <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 14:28:11 -0500
Subject: 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
>Revenge, even when it misfires, MUST be an act
>of pure, unthinking aggression, for no thinking person would carry it
>out, given the inevitable consequences, both for the agressee and the
>aggressor.
I disagree that Shakespeare's point is to show acts of revenge as
unplanned emotional outbursts. Perhaps the point is "revenge has no
reward" or something more closely correspondent to the message of
Ecclesiastes - a chase after wind (spirits). Consider Iago, et al. -
why would Shakespeare deviate in Hamlet from his other carefully
constructed (formed/formulated) revenge driven characters? Revenge as a
concept is attached to a character created to represent the concept
(model of/model for, if you will). No, Hamlet is not meant to represent
solely the concept of revenge. I think revenge is just one of the
sub-concepts, logical supports, for what Hamlet really stands for.
Historically, one can find many examples of well-thought plans for
revenge. Consider the war in Iraq for one since the subject of
Shakespeare's deep messages to Humanity has also been brought into this
thread.
Sincerely,
Sally Drumm
NSLP
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Arnold <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 12 Nov 2005 19:48:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Kenneth Chan quotes me, "We start with: ACT ONE and a spirit telling
Prince Hamlet of a deed which demands justice, divine justice as the
dichotomy between the angels and the demons signifies. Some call what
happens throughout the play other than how I see it: Prince Hamlet seeks
justice. As a member of the Elizabethan audience, Christian, 1600, I am
aware of an injustice crying out for justice. The Spirit declared it!
Hamlet AND OTHERS saw and heard it."
Kenneth Chan then states his opinion about matters.
As does Edmund Taft.
What both do is focus on the protagonist Prince Hamlet and, with a broad
and erred brush, ignore the antagonist King Claudius who CREATED the
PREMISE that the play begins with and is only RESOLVED with the latter's
death at the hands of the protagonist, and judge and jury and
executioner of justice: Prince Hamlet. Classic! I love it.
Bill Arnold
http://www.cwru.edu/affil/edis/scholars/arnold.htm
[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: John-Paul Spiro <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Monday, 14 Nov 2005 09:59:41 -0500
Subject: 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Comment: RE: SHK 16.1866 Hamlet: Revenge or Justice?
Kenneth Chan writes: Already in the opening scene, Shakespeare stresses
that the ghost is an "erring spirit" that has to hie to his confine upon
the crowing of the cock. In Scene 2, Shakespeare repeats the same point
in Horatio's narration of the event to Hamlet. And in Scene 5,
Shakespeare reminds us of this nature of the ghost yet again. The
ghost's very first words inform us that he is no angel, and hence that
his counsel is suspect.
Does Shakespeare say that the ghost is an "erring spirit"? I was under
the impression that Horatio says that, not Shakespeare. And I recall
that Hamlet says something about Horatio not knowing everything...though
that's just Hamlet talking--again, not Shakespeare.
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