The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.1941 Wednesday, 23 November 2005
[Editor's Note: I believe the parameters of the issues raised in this
thread have been clearly drawn. I will still welcome private
correspondences, but the thread itself is over.]
[1] From: Bill Arnold <
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Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2005 20:31:10 -0800 (PST)
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
[2] From: Arnie Perlstein <
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Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2005 05:51:26 -0500
Subj: Re Dead Horses and Closing Threads
[3] From: Sally Drumm <
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Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2005 09:16:41 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Arnold <
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Date: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2005 20:31:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
Hardy wants to hear from us, so after some darn careful thinking and
mulling it over, here goes. I have no problem with the way it is, as
long as Hardy runs it. We have a sense of who Hardy is, and unless he
caves into some bias of some select group among us who post and read, he
is doing just fine. I would hate to see him cave in, and suspect he
will not. What do I mean? Well, I am a scholar, a former college
professor, and teacher from K through 12 starting back in 1964. What's
that?
Yep, four decades. And I am a member of the MLA, and for those not in
the know, that is the Modern Language Association. They have
conventions and create those scary arcane publications and meetings with
erudite words and largely scholarly talk between scholars. So, who
needs that here? This is not an MLA forum, and Hardy would be
hatracking Shakespeare to turn it into that. Of course, that is my
opinion. And yes, noses are like opinions, we all got 'em. Now, I went
to grad school and spent my 60-grad hours in English courses. So, I
have had the highly disciplined approach to Shakespeare, et al. And I
have taught at all levels.
But, folks, this is a worldwide internet forum with a worldwide internet
membership, and we can all get along. I am bored to tears by people who
write in once every other century to tell us he or she would have
written more often if only we were not here and everything was his or
her way, and because it ain't, well, they are going to not play ball
with us: Shakespeareans.
Bill Arnold
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Arnie Perlstein <
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Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2005 05:51:26 -0500
Subject: Re Dead Horses and Closing Threads
>"Okay, I've kept out of this attempt to turn the list into a graduate
school
>bulletin board, but this from Stuart Manger simply horrified me, and I'm
>trying ever so hard not to take it as a personal insult:
>
>"Like Holger Syme, one of my major aversions is for those who write as if
>the characters in plays were real, with back stories or forward stories.
>That seems to suggest so fundamental a misunderstanding of how drama /
>theatre is made as to render most of what they then go on to say as
>worthless, for they are reducing Shakespeare to an interactive soap opera.
>That has to be seriously worrying in a forum which was intended to be an
>exchange of scholarly or near scholarly opinion, hasn't it?"
>
>Clearly, poets and playwrights need not apply.
>
>Would Mr. Manger really teach a young writer that dramatic characters are
>not meant to have any reality and therefore imagining backstory or future
>life or current life for them is irrelevant?
>
>I apologize for having intruded my worthless opinions on a serious
scholarly
>exchange."
All that can be said to that besides "Bravo!" is that there is a grey
area in which one person's valid subtextual speculation is another's
wild over reaching, and that while I am one who prefers to err on the
side of going too far rather than playing too safe, I have the
impression that Hardy prefers that we not roam too far too long. Because
this is his show, I must temper my roaming.
Arnie Perlstein
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sally Drumm <
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Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2005 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1930 Dead Horses and Closing Threads
I was allowed to join this list as an undergraduate participating in a
Renaissance English course. I have been enjoying Shakespeare's work
since I was a child. I spent twenty years in the military and attended
college late in life. Following graduation, I attended graduate school
to study writing (Yes, I am one of those MFAs). An essay of mine was
named a notable essay in Best American Essays 2005 - so I must have
learned something valuable during the past four years I was attending
college. Now I am a writer and an adjunct professor (Yes, it's true;
the pay is terrible). The writers of Shaksper continue to inspire me. I
read the Shaksper posts every time I receive them, and always find a new
way to look at something Shakespeare or to think of a symbol or to put
words together. As an undergraduate, I found reading this listserv
inspiring and informative. I wonder how many high school and
undergraduate students who visit this site and find their first
experience of academic discourse on Shaksper will be inspired to enter
academia? Oh, perhaps zero; but maybe, even one is worth the effort.
We are not all possessed of the genius of an Aristotle or a Shakespeare,
but listservs like this one can certainly have a hand in creating a
genius of that caliber if ever one is again produced by civilization.
Like all relationships, this listserv has taken on a life of its own.
Perhaps it can no longer be the beautiful small private thing it began
as because of its very importance and its maturing, its natural process
evolution, its rites of passage. And perhaps one reason it creates so
much controversy is because it is so important to so many important
people with important ideas. But perhaps if one thought back upon
one's own beginnings, and recalled why a career in academia was chosen,
one might understand at least one reason why Shaksper matters so much to
such diverse people.
Personally, not that it matters to anyone, I think Hardy should put
together a book of all the important scholarly posts from Shaksper,
publish it, and use the money earned to hire an assistant. Perhaps an
encyclopedia of sorts is called for. Of course, authors of posts would
be credited, but receive no pay except inclusion having gladly given
such recompense to the betterment of Shaksper. Such a book would prove
essential not just to scholars, but to writers, theater and film artists
researching Shakespeare's works. I realize this is a controversial
topic, but I cannot seem to stop myself from thinking in terms of books
(it is true - I am obsessed with writing and all things writing, and
particularly with the work of great writers of whom some might say
Shakespeare was and still is the greatest).
On closing my last post, I attached the letters "NSLP" to my name. I
believe I will add a "W" to my credentials, so that I might now be known
as: Sally Drumm Non-scholarly Layperson Writer...or NLW; or perhaps, LW
would do (Perhaps this is silly , but sometimes it feels quite
frightening to post on Shaksper and maybe the simple solution is for
those of us who are not academic Shakespeare experts is to identify
ourselves as who we are. And if you like, or if I am considered too
ignorant to continue reading and occasionally responding to posts, I
will understand why I must be exorcised from list membership though I
will sorely miss the Shaksper discourse.).
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Hardy M. Cook,
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