The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.1733 Wednesday, 12 October 2005
[1] From: John W. Kennedy <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 11:55:02 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
[2] From: Julia Griffin <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 13:01:38 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
[3] From: Arnie Perlstein <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:30 -0400
Subj: Re MFM: The Duke Teaching Isabella?
[4] From: David Richman <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 17:42:27 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
[5] From: Joseph Egert <
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Date: Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 00:00:09 +0000
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1712 Isabella's Redemption
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: John W. Kennedy <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 11:55:02 -0400
Subject: 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
Abigail Quart <
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>Only then does the Duke reveal Claudio, still alive. Only then
>does the Duke propose. If Isabella puts her hand into the Duke's
>hand when he offers it, she has no need to speak. She has given
>visual consent. She actually has to physically put her hand into
>the Duke's so that he can confirm her gesture with the line "He
>is my brother, too." Claudio and the Duke become brothers upon
>the Duke's marriage to Claudio's sister. The line is a marriage contract.
...
>If a director doesn't see the moment of the visual wedding in Measure,
>and leaves it out, the ending falls flat. It has "problems." Isabella,
>redeemed, must be seen to give her consent to live in the world of
>flesh, love, indulgence, and forgiveness.
I have to say that, although I would not be quite so harsh on Isabella's
character as displayed throughout the play, I think not only that this
is the right answer to the "problem" of the Duke's proposal, but that it
is, far more importantly, the right /kind/ of answer, in treating
"Measure for Measure" as pre-eminently a /play/, and not some other
thing. Honestly, in this world of post-modernism and
post-post-modernism, it's a downright breath of fresh air.
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Julia Griffin <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 13:01:38 -0400
Subject: 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
On Is's redemption: Empson pointed out how amazingly self-centred she
remains, even as she kneels.
I partly think
A due sincerity govern'd his deeds
Till he did look on me.
Unless "partly" here is working very hard indeed, it seems that his
treatment of Mariana has made no real impression on her. (Her immediate
and characteristic reaction to hearing about it was to think how nice it
would be for Mariana to be dead: III i). Mariana's appeal is a
different thing altogether ...
Julia
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Arnie Perlstein <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:30 -0400
Subject: Re MFM: The Duke Teaching Isabella?
"But still the Duke carries on with his little show. While Isabella
stands by and watches, he sentences Angelo to death, despite Mariana's
pleas for his life. But for what purpose? He has already saved
Claudio's life. He has publicly humbled Angelo and made him fulfill his
promise of marriage to Mariana. So why does he persist in going forward
with his deception? It's because he's waiting for Isabella to show
mercy and forgiveness.
From her knees, Mariana pleads with Isabella to join her and beg for
Angelo's life. The Duke asks Mariana why Isabella should kneel down in
mercy, in the face of her brother's ghost, and ask that Angelo be
forgiven for his crime-practically goading Isabella into the recognition
that her continued silence is unchristian. It is only after Isabella
kneels down in supplication, forgiving Angelo and begging that he be
shown mercy, that the Duke calls the provost forward and winds up his
little drama.
It seems to me that the Duke has intentionally withheld the fact that
Claudio is still alive from Isabella in order to give her an opportunity
to show mercy and forgiveness. A chance to grow spiritually and gain
some maturity. She wasn't really cut out to be a nun, and perhaps she
realizes this at the end. If so, I think she probably accepted the
Duke's proposal of marriage."
Clark, that is a beautifully summarized argument in favor of your
conclusion, but it treats the Duke as though he were God and not a man.
But when you look at him as a man, much of what he does in the play
smacks far more of the Devil than of God. As Shakespeare understood so
well, there is not much of a difference, when you come right down to it,
between them! The basic aspect of the M.O. of both of them is that they
operate according to the principles of judo and remote control puppetry.
They prefer to (and maybe can only) operate indirectly, by
tempting/teaching (aren't they really two sides of the same coin?)
humans to act (im)morally. Parting of the Red Sea or stopping the sun in
the sky is flashy but ultimately kinda tacky, and doesn't do much for
human moral development.
Seeing MFM as a very screwball black comedy, I realize more fully now
that Shakespeare, in MFM, has created a male/female "dance" which
exceeds even Much Ado About Nothing in complexity (if not in pleasure).
And, I also assert, along with MAAN, AYLI and 12N, MFM provided
inspiration for that later, greatest of all love stories, i.e., Jane
Austen's Pride and Prejudice. The latter is the ultimate story of a man
and a woman inadvertently acting as student and teacher for each other,
in the school of life, as they fall in love in the process. MAAN is the
bright side of the coin, AYLI and 12N play with aspects of it, but MFM
is the darkest of dark sides of the male/female dance. I bet Ingmar
Bergman really liked MFM.
So, in fine, I'd expand your argument, and say that this is a dynamic
between the Duke and Isabella, and that the one in far greater need of
moral, spiritual and psychological reform is the Duke himself, not
Isabella! The first two or three years of therapy would be taken up
with learning how to speak (and behave) honestly. ;)
Arnie Perlstein
Weston, Florida
[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Richman <
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Date: Monday, 10 Oct 2005 17:42:27 -0400
Subject: 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1723 Isabella's Redemption
Peter Brook's 1950 R.S.C. production of "Measure for Measure,"made a
good deal of Isabella's kneeling for mercy. He describes the moment in
a memorable passage in his book **The Empty Space.**
He writes:
When I once staged the play, I asked Isabella, before kneeling for
Angelo's life, to pause each night until she felt the audience could
take it no longer, and this used to lead to a two-minute stopping of the
play. The device became a voodoo pole, a silence in which all the
invisible elements of the evening came together: a silence in which the
abstract notion of mercy became concrete for that moment to those present.
In his production, though not in others, it was clear to the audience
that Isabella would marry the duke.
David Richman
[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joseph Egert <
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Date: Tuesday, 11 Oct 2005 00:00:09 +0000
Subject: 16.1712 Isabella's Redemption
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1712 Isabella's Redemption
Clark Holloway asks, "why does he [Duke Vincentio] persist in going
forward with his deception?" and answers, "It's because he's waiting for
Isabella to show mercy and forgiveness."
Portia and Prospero would approve (as would the Apostle Paul, for that
matter). While the King's Man may have had reservations about the
tactics employed by the "Duke of dark corners," his lord and master
James had no such qualms. A contemporary (Anthony Weldon) cites the
King's private motto as: "QUI NESCIT DISSIMULARE, NESCIT REGNARE." ("He
who knows not how to dissimulate knows not how to reign.")
Joe Egert
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