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Home :: Archive :: 2005 :: September ::
Performing Angelo
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.1601  Saturday, 24 September 2005

[1] 	From: 	Abigail Quart <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 13:38:39 -0400
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

[2] 	From: 	Abigail Quart <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 13:40:34 -0400
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

[3] 	From: 	D Bloom <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 14:01:20 -0500
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

[4] 	From: 	Jim Blackie <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 15:42:03 -0400 (EDT)
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

[5] 	From: 	Jack Heller <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 15:04:08 -0500 (EST)
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

[6] 	From: 	Arnie Perlstein <
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	Date: 	Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 21:38:13 -0400
	Subj: 	RE: Performing Angelo


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Abigail Quart <
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Date: 		Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 13:38:39 -0400
Subject: 16.1585 Performing Angelo
Comment: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

Ay, but to die and go we know not where,
To lie in cold obstruction and to rot;
This sensible warm motion to become
A kneaded clod; and the delighted spirit
To bathe in fiery floods, or to reside
In thrilling region of thick-ribbed ice;
To be imprisoned in the viewless winds
And blown with restless violence round about
The pendent world; or to be worse than worst
Of those that lawless and incertain thought
Imagine howling:  'tis too horrible!
The weariest and most loathed earthly life
That age, ache, penury and imprisonment
Can lay on nature is a paradise
To what we fear of death.

Hyperbole. Big time.

Claudio doesn't seem to be a committed Christian, either, btw.

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Abigail Quart <
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Date: 		Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 13:40:34 -0400
Subject: 16.1585 Performing Angelo
Comment: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

One more argument for a young Duke just occurred to me. Measure was 
written at the end of Elizabeth's reign. And people were getting 
arrested and questioned about all kinds of plots. Will's company was 
questioned. Could not have been fun.

Not a time to imply that an older ruler was dropping the ball. Or needed 
help to rule effectively. Not a good time at all.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		D Bloom <
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Date: 		Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 14:01:20 -0500
Subject: 16.1585 Performing Angelo
Comment: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

In response to my query about what is meant by "toy" to describe 
virginity, Abigail Quart writes:

 >"As to Isabella's virginity being her favorite toy, well, did you ever
 >try to take a beloved teddy from a toddler? The fuss!"

I am still trying to make sure I understand Quart clearly. Virginity is 
to nun, as teddy bear is to toddler.

Is she really saying that an earnest and difficult vow to God is the 
same as the possessiveness of a child with regard to beloved stuffed 
animal? I remain baffled.

Cheers,
don

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Jim Blackie <
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Date: 		Thursday, 22 Sep 2005 15:42:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 16.1585 Performing Angelo
Comment: 	RE: SHK 16.1585 Performing Angelo

From: Abigail Quart: "Comedic" or "humorous" and "playing for laughs" 
are two different things. I'm not arguing for a burlesque interpretation. "

JB: Yet earlier you pointed out the humor of a man talking to his penis! 
What is that then, if not all three of your possibilities above? You 
convinced me in your earlier message, and now you seem to be changing 
course. The point that some of this COULD be played for laughs I found 
reasonable, if not an inspiration.

From: Abigail Quart "The play AIN'T a tragedy."

JB: But comes dangerously close. Lacking only a few corpses.

From: Abigail Quart: " Why would the Duke have to insist that his 
purpose was "grave and
wrinkled" rather than one motivated by "burning youth" if he was 
obviously without youth? "

JB: Possibly because those words serve to modify the noun "purpose."

Still, what proof is that? What do you make of Falstaff's admonition

(1 Henry IV) to his cohorts during the robbery scene -

"Strike; down with them; cut the villains' throats:
ah! whoreson caterpillars! bacon-fed knaves! they
hate us youth: down with them: fleece them."

Using similar logic, why would he say this if he were not really young?

From: Abigail Quart: "What they are doing is NOT right. They have 
disturbed the
natural order of things. Restoring natural order by returning people to
their proper places is the journey of the play."

JB: Is not the Shakespearean "rule" of comedy that the situation starts 
with discord or disorder and only by the action of the characters 
(usually from without the world of that situation) is harmony achieved? 
What we start with is Vienna is DISorder, so the Duke leave, his 
intention being a new force to "cleanup the town." He runs and hides. 
Instead of more order, we get LESS order than before. Tragedy is 
avoided, Angelo is punished by forcing him to marry a woman who loves 
him, and the old disorder (still somewhat worse for most characters) is 
"restored." Wow. Some comedy. Some natural order. And what to make of 
the Duke, disguised as a clergyman, stealing away the almost-nun (God's 
fianc

 

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