The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.0132 Tuesday, 7 March 2006
[1] From: Tom Simone <
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Date: Monday, 06 Mar 2006 11:14:53 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
[2] From: Bruce Young <
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Date: Monday, 6 Mar 2006 11:17:23 -0700
Subj: RE: SHK 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
[3] From: Philip Tomposki <
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Date: Monday, 06 Mar 2006 14:24:58 -0500
Subj: RE: Historical Accuracy
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom Simone <
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Date: Monday, 06 Mar 2006 11:14:53 -0500
Subject: 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
Comment: Re: SHK 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
Hamlet says to Horatio in 5.2 "He that hath kill'd my king and whored my
mother, Popp'd in between the election and my hopes." And in 1.2
Claudius points to the nobles who have gone along with his rule.
This indicates a fairly clear knowledge that they do things differently
in Denmark and that Shakespeare had some sense of the electoral process
behind Claudius's kingship.
Best,
Tom Simone
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce Young <
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Date: Monday, 6 Mar 2006 11:17:23 -0700
Subject: 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
Comment: RE: SHK 17.0124 Historical Accuracy
Jim Blackie wonders whether Shakespeare would have known about the
political and sociological details of the times and places he wrote
about or, if he had known, would have cared.
Certainly there's evidence that Shakespeare often ignores such details
or gives only enough of them to provide a vague sense of locale or
period. Yet in some plays based on historical sources (e.g., Plutarch),
he uses details about customs, etc., plentifully.
On the question of Denmark as an elective monarchy, at least two
passages in "Hamlet" suggest that is what Shakespeare had in mind:
(1) "He hath . . . / Popp'd in between the election and my choice"
(5.2.64-65).
(2) "I do prophesy th' election lights / On Fortinbras, he has my dying
voice" (5.2.355-56).
In both passages "election" may mean simply "the process of choosing."
Yet both imply that someone is doing the choosing (these would be the
"electors"), and in the second passage, when Hamlet votes for
Fortinbras, he implies that his will be one among several voices
required to make the choice.
Where Shakespeare might have gotten the idea of some sort of "election"
involving multiple "voices" I'm not sure.
Bruce Young
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Philip Tomposki <
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Date: Monday, 06 Mar 2006 14:24:58 -0500
Subject: RE: Historical Accuracy
Jim Blackie writes:
"...Would Will have known the form of government in Denmark at the time
of this play? Or, more probable to me, at least, would he not use his
knowledge of the current time and place upon which to base his rationale
for the theft of throne?"
Elective monarchies were not unknown at the time. Two of the continents
largest states, the Holy Roman Empire and the Polish-Lithuanian
Commonwealth, both elected their monarchs. Since S doesn't bother to
explain this to his audience, which he customarily does when presenting
something out of the ordinary, it is not unreasonable to presume that
the existence of such monarchies was generally know.
Whether Denmark is presented as an elective monarchy in "Saxo
Grammaticus", Belleforest's 'Histoires Tragiques' or the 'Ur-Hamlet' is,
perhaps, beside the point. S was no stickler for historical accuracy,
and I believe this, like many other 'puzzles' in Hamlet, have more to do
with dramaturgy than history or hidden meanings. The plot requires
that Claudius be seen as a legitimate king, so the Denmark of 'Hamlet'
elects its kings.
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