Make a Donation

Consider making a donation to support SHAKSPER.

Subscribe to Our Feeds

Current Postings RSS

Announcements RSS

Home :: Archive :: 2006 :: March ::
Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.0217  Friday, 24 March 2006

[1] 	From: 	Stuart Manger <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
	Date: 	Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:48:21 +0000
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle

[2] 	From: 	Carol Barton <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
	Date: 	Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:09 -0500
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Stuart Manger <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date: 		Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:48:21 +0000
Subject: 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle

Joe Egert wrote: "Is the Machiavellian Duke once more evading his own 
responsibility and selecting yet another Angelo in Lucio to clean up his 
(the Duke's) own mess?"

For my money, that is precisely what he is doing. I can't see 'divine 
right' real or assumed. His 'disguise' as a monk is an affront to the 
monastic calling, and as cynical as you can get - exploitation and abuse 
of the secrecy of the confessional, assumption of the role of a priest 
to learn stuff from unsuspecting and innocent women / girls - I mean, 
what else do you want?? THEN has the temerity to accuse Lucio of 
terrible things? Pot and kettle and black come into the same sentence 
here for me.

The guy is a failed ruler, abdicates, schemes, deceives, lies, gets 
people to trade sexual favours for political advantage - he is the 
darkest of all dark corner dukes. Comes out unscathed and, mirabile 
visu, restored to the throne.

I am afraid I think he and Isabella deserve each other to be honest. I 
do not like her noli me tangere procuring of Mariana to save her 
virginity and effectively try to save her brother. Sorry.  Leaves a very 
nasty taste - as I suspect both Duke and Isabella are meant to. Whited 
Sepulchres?

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Carol Barton <
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 >
Date: 		Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:09 -0500
Subject: 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle

Bravo, Ed Taft (why am I not surprised?). I never said that Isabella 
didn't have problems of her own-or that a male who has been compromised 
by another man could not imagine what it felt like to be in Isabella's 
predicament.

Following Ed's train of thought, there are many repressed females (some 
of whom engage in S&M as a result) who are only comfortable copulating 
if they appear to be "forced" into the act. A Freudian could give you a 
more colorful explanation; suffice it to say (from me) that Isabella's 
puritanical attitudes are also suspect-but *not* because she is a 
"whore," willingly bartering sex for her brother's emancipation. She 
rejects responsibility for her own sexuality, and wants (for a better 
way to put it) to hide from men and the world behind her novice's veil 
(something like Maria in "The Sound of Music," but far less innocent). 
HOWEVER---

the fact that she needs to seem "unwilling" to be capable of being 
receptive to a man (the Duke) does *not* entitle a man to whom she is 
truly unreceptive (Angelo) to corner her into accepting his 
attentions-which was the point of my earlier post. It is difficult 
(biologically) for a woman to rape a man-but the same impediments don't 
exist, for a man to force either an unwilling woman or an unwilling man 
into unwanted coitus-and I'm sure the sense of violation (even between 
two homosexual males) is equal to what I described, that case.

I hope I've offended no one's sensibilities, in this exchange.

Carol Barton

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, 
 This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the 
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the 
editor assumes no responsibility for them.
 

©2011 Hardy Cook. All rights reserved.