The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.0217 Friday, 24 March 2006
[1] From: Stuart Manger <
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Date: Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:48:21 +0000
Subj: Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
[2] From: Carol Barton <
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Date: Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:09 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stuart Manger <
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Date: Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:48:21 +0000
Subject: 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Comment: Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Joe Egert wrote: "Is the Machiavellian Duke once more evading his own
responsibility and selecting yet another Angelo in Lucio to clean up his
(the Duke's) own mess?"
For my money, that is precisely what he is doing. I can't see 'divine
right' real or assumed. His 'disguise' as a monk is an affront to the
monastic calling, and as cynical as you can get - exploitation and abuse
of the secrecy of the confessional, assumption of the role of a priest
to learn stuff from unsuspecting and innocent women / girls - I mean,
what else do you want?? THEN has the temerity to accuse Lucio of
terrible things? Pot and kettle and black come into the same sentence
here for me.
The guy is a failed ruler, abdicates, schemes, deceives, lies, gets
people to trade sexual favours for political advantage - he is the
darkest of all dark corner dukes. Comes out unscathed and, mirabile
visu, restored to the throne.
I am afraid I think he and Isabella deserve each other to be honest. I
do not like her noli me tangere procuring of Mariana to save her
virginity and effectively try to save her brother. Sorry. Leaves a very
nasty taste - as I suspect both Duke and Isabella are meant to. Whited
Sepulchres?
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carol Barton <
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Date: Thursday, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:09 -0500
Subject: 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Comment: Re: SHK 17.0207 Measure for Measure and a Puzzle
Bravo, Ed Taft (why am I not surprised?). I never said that Isabella
didn't have problems of her own-or that a male who has been compromised
by another man could not imagine what it felt like to be in Isabella's
predicament.
Following Ed's train of thought, there are many repressed females (some
of whom engage in S&M as a result) who are only comfortable copulating
if they appear to be "forced" into the act. A Freudian could give you a
more colorful explanation; suffice it to say (from me) that Isabella's
puritanical attitudes are also suspect-but *not* because she is a
"whore," willingly bartering sex for her brother's emancipation. She
rejects responsibility for her own sexuality, and wants (for a better
way to put it) to hide from men and the world behind her novice's veil
(something like Maria in "The Sound of Music," but far less innocent).
HOWEVER---
the fact that she needs to seem "unwilling" to be capable of being
receptive to a man (the Duke) does *not* entitle a man to whom she is
truly unreceptive (Angelo) to corner her into accepting his
attentions-which was the point of my earlier post. It is difficult
(biologically) for a woman to rape a man-but the same impediments don't
exist, for a man to force either an unwilling woman or an unwilling man
into unwanted coitus-and I'm sure the sense of violation (even between
two homosexual males) is equal to what I described, that case.
I hope I've offended no one's sensibilities, in this exchange.
Carol Barton
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