The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.0276 Tuesday, 4 April 2006
From: Jeffrey Jordan <
Date: Monday, 3 Apr 2006 15:37:41 -0500
Subject: 17.0267 Let's Keep Messages to An Individual Private
Comment: Re: SHK 17.0267 Let's Keep Messages to An Individual Private
Responding to Bob G's comments.
>My first impression is that you're just repeating yourself,
>and mostly not seeming to grasp my arguments.
I grasp your arguments, but I don't find them persuasive. Do you grasp
my arguments? The second person who went to Chettle was more credibly
Lyly than S, because it was 1592, and because of the description Chettle
provided in KH. It fits Lyly quite well, but doesn't fit anything known
about S at that time.
>You did clear up one misunderstanding of mine--you are saying
>Lyly was offended by being associated with the wrong crowd,
>and/or with a playwright Greene called an atheist (but there's
>good reason to believe Greene also called Marlowe a homosexual,
>which was the part of the Groatsworth Chettle deleted as editor
Um, yes and no. I'll try to clarify. I'm not saying Lyly was
personally insulted, at all, by what Greene wrote. Rather, it gave him
a social/political problem of being associated with alleged atheists, in
print, in Elizabethan England. That led Lyly to approach Chettle,
hoping for a way to get a retraction, in print, but it wasn't possible
because Greene was dead. Chettle did apologize; however, it was not for
any personal insult to Lyly, but rather for printing GW, including the
letter part which caused the problem. It isn't only personal insults
that can call for an apology.
Where do you find in GW any indication that Greene called Marlowe a
What Chettle deleted from the letter part of GW was most reasonably in
the part to Nashe. For one thing, despite the statement of affection
with which that part begins, it's surprisingly short, and generally
impersonal. If one looks in that part, carefully, it's quite odd.
Right in the middle of the part to Nashe is a legal definition of
defamation, just plopped in. Greene was not Nashe's solicitor, or
anything of the kind. What has most likely happened there, is that
Greene, writing to Nashe, wrote something objectionably personal about
somebody, (Gabriel Harvey would be an easy guess,) and Chettle deleted
it, and replaced it with the "legal advice," written in a literary style.
It does support that Chettle was telling the truth in KH, when he said
he "took something out" of the letter part of GW. That further supports
Chettle was telling the truth, that Greene wrote GW.
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook,
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>
DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.