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Home :: Archive :: 2006 :: July ::
Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.0644  Wednesday, 12 July 2006

[1] 	From: 	Stanley Wells <
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	Date: 	Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 15:01:14 +0100
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

[2] 	From: 	John W. Kennedy <
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	Date: 	Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 10:59:45 -0400
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

[3] 	From: 	John Briggs <
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	Date: 	Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:02 +0100
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

[4] 	From: 	Peter Goldman <
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	Date: 	Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 09:36:00 -0600
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

[5] 	From: 	Jeffrey Jordan <
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	Date: 	Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 13:02:55 -0500
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Stanley Wells <
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Date: 		Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 15:01:14 +0100
Subject: 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
Comment: 	RE: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

The evidence is Shakespeare's dedications to Southampton of Venus and 
Adonis and The Rape of Lucrece.

Stanley Wells
The Shakespeare Centre

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		John W. Kennedy <
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Date: 		Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 10:59:45 -0400
Subject: 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

Matthew Cossolotto <
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 >Regarding the dustup over the "Cobbe" portrait, is there any
 >evidence that conclusively establishes that Southampton was
 >Shakespeare's patron . . . or is this just accepted and asserted
 >by Stanley Wells and other scholars based on tradition?

That Southampton was Shakespeare's /patron/, at least for a time, would 
appear to be settled beyond all but quibble by the dedication to "The 
Rape of Lucrece", when taken together with the dedication to "Venus and 
Adonis".

As far as I know, all other proposed relationships between the two 
reside somewhere along the highway that runs from Conjectural City to 
Loony Junction.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		John Briggs <
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Date: 		Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:02 +0100
Subject: 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

Matthew Cossolotto wrote:

 >Regarding the dustup over the "Cobbe" portrait, is there any evidence
 >that conclusively establishes that Southampton was Shakespeare's
 >patron . . . or is this just accepted and asserted by Stanley Wells
 >and other scholars based on tradition?

It depends what you mean by "patron".  Shakespeare dedicated the 
publication of each of his two narrative poems to Southampton - for 
which the Earl would have rewarded him, one hopes generously.  To that 
extent, he was definitely a patron - indeed, a repeat patron!

John Briggs

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Peter Goldman <
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 >
Date: 		Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 09:36:00 -0600
Subject: 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

There's still some debate on this issue of course. But Venus and Adonis 
was dedicated to Southampton with a promise for a subsequent work, "some 
graver work," if he was pleased. The dedication of The Rape of Lucrece 
suggests that Southampton was indeed pleased and had rewarded Sh____: 
"The warrant I have of your honourable disposition."

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Jeffrey Jordan <
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Date: 		Tuesday, 11 Jul 2006 13:02:55 -0500
Subject: 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.0636 Was Southampton Shakespeare's Patron?

Replying to Matthew Cossolotto.

 >is there any evidence that conclusively establishes
 >that Southampton was Shakespeare's patron

Conclusively, no.  Or if there is, I'd like to hear of it.

But the Lucrece dedication, following the V&A dedication, is good 
evidence that a relationship had developed.  Southampton wasn't the only 
patronage prospect in England, so Shakespeare could have looked 
elsewhere. If Southampton had turned Shakespeare down after V & A, it 
becomes very difficult to explain the Lucrece dedication. The Bard was 
no dunce, and it's quite unlikely he would have spent his time flogging 
a dead horse.  Had Southampton said "no thanks" after V&A, we'd see 
Lucrece dedicated to somebody else.

It isn't a conclusion directly from evidence, such as finding one of 
Southampton's canceled checks. :-)   But it's a firm conclusion from 
rational argument, based on the published evidence, that Shakespeare 
didn't think he was wasting his time by dedicating his poems to 
Southampton.  And if Shakespeare didn't think he was wasting his time 
with Southampton, neither should we.

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