The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 18.0766 Tuesday, 13 November 2007
[1] From: Nicole Coonradt <
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Date: Friday, 09 Nov 2007 15:21:20 +0000
Subj: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
[2] From: Steve Sohmer <
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Date: Friday, 9 Nov 2007 10:51:38 EST
Subj: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
[3] From: Larry Weiss <
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Date: Friday, 09 Nov 2007 11:55:16 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nicole Coonradt <
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Date: Friday, 09 Nov 2007 15:21:20 +0000
Subject: 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
Comment: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
RE Lynn Brenner's comments today:
>But that doesn't mean the characters aren't telling us the truth as they
>perceive it. This is merely a question of theatrical convention. In this
>case, the convention is that characters may lie to other characters, but
>when speaking directly to us, they say what they see as the truth-or to
>put it another way ("thought bubbles") what they'd like to think is the
>truth.
I think this takes us back to square one. What I suspect is that there
may have been either a miscommunication or a misunderstanding about what
the professor told the student. Insofar as this address to the audience
represents some kind of truth or reality *to the speaker* of the
soliloquy, I think that's a safe assumption, but we still have to
realize that we are often in the position of special knowledge as the
audience. There are times when we are privy to information that the
speaker of the soliloquy is not. I go back to my Hamlet/Claudius example
from an earlier post in this thread.
How could we know if a character knowingly lied to us in soliloquy (did
someone mention Iago earlier?)? If the soliloquy puts us into a
character's head, I'm not sure how this could work. Eager to hear if
anyone comes up with an example of this "I-am-deceiving-the-audience"
moment.
Best,
Nicole Coonradt
[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Sohmer <
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Date: Friday, 9 Nov 2007 10:51:38 EST
Subject: 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
Comment: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
Lynne Brynner asked if anyone can "cite instances in which a character
knowingly lies to us, i.e. is shown to have been consciously misleading
us in a soliloquy?"
Does anyone believe that Othello has done Iago's office between his sheets?
Rather, isn't Iago indulging in self-deception and/or rationalization?
This moment supports (perhaps proves) that soliloquies were monologues
interieurs not addressed to the audience.
Marlowe's Maltese speaks to the audience. That device, which seems so
post-Freudian and moderne to us, would have seemed dated to Elizabethan
actors and audiences recently freed from the preachy conventions of
the morality plays.
But that was Marlowe's point; he was writing a mock morality.
Shakespeare's Chorus(es) address the audience, his soliloquisers don't.
Consider the function of Chorus in R&J in contrast to the play's
soliloquies. If I'm not mistaken, when Chorus is employed in a play he
is always the first speaker, i.e. he speaks before the play begins and
thereby remains a non-character. Characters are only permitted to speak
to the audience after the play ends, e.g. 2H4, AYLI, TEM.
Rylance's Hamlet wasn't really speaking to the audience at all, but to
generations of scholars and commentators who have upbraided Hamlet as a
temporizer.
Then again, I've always believed that the opening line of JC, the very
first line of dialogue spoken at the original Globe, was addressed to
the audience.
Hope this helps,
Steve
[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Larry Weiss <
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Date: Friday, 09 Nov 2007 11:55:16 -0500
Subject: 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
Comment: Re: SHK 18.0757 Soliloquies - Truth or Lie
>Can anyone cite instances in which a character knowingly lies
>to us-i.e., is shown to have been consciously misleading us in a
soliloquy?
Not only are misleading soliloquies as rare as hens' teeth, there is an
extreme paucity of deceptive plot development in the Canon. As much as
the characters deceive each other, the audience is not usually fooled.
The only exception I can think of is Hermione's non-death; and even that
might not be a good example if those who think that WS originally
intended for Hermione to die and then revised the ending are correct.
The closest other instance of this sort of thing is the revelation that
the Abbess in C/E is actually Egeon's wife; but that is just a surprise,
not a misdirection.
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