The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 18.0357 Thursday, 7 June 2007
[1] From: William Godshalk <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 15:11:28 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
[2] From: J. Richard Forbing <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:31:41 -0700
Subj: RE: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
[3] From: Rose Frankfort <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 20:42:11 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: William Godshalk <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 15:11:28 -0400
Subject: 18.0338 Upstart Crow
Comment: Re: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
I would like to note that Peter Alexander believed the "upstart crow"
was a reference to Shakespeare as an actor, not to Shakespeare as a
poet. Greene is complaining that Shakespeare the actor was "beautified
with our feathers," i.e. our words, our plays. And now he has the
effrontery to write plays himself.
Bill Godshalk
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: J. Richard Forbing <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:31:41 -0700
Subject: 18.0338 Upstart Crow
Comment: RE: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
A small tangent, but related: reading this discussion, I was recalling
that Greene's most famous work was his series of "deathbed" writings. I
believe these included the "upstart crow" bit, but also Greene's
expressions of regret over a dissolute life, wherein he decried his
various means of debauchery. The reason I bring this up is, in high
school I wrote a paper wherein I proposed what I believed (in the
arrogant omniscience reserved for the pubescent) to be an "original"
hypothesis that Shakespeare had written the description of Falstaff's
death in Henry V as a parody of Greene, as revenge for the upstart crow
bit. Remembering it now, I poked around on the Internet to seek what
scholarship had produced on this subject. I see some mention of Greene
as model for Falstaff on Wikipedia (and I'm off to the bookstore to give
Stephen Greenblatt's book another look, as I hadn't noticed a reference
on previous perusals), but I was wondering if anyone could point me in
the direction of any more substantial discussion or debate?
Pardon my ignorance if there has already been a good deal of discussion
on this somewhere, I subscribe to this list as a Shakespearean actor
rather than an academician (won't even finish my bachelor's for another
year).
Looking at it now, after years in the theatre, I sometimes wonder if
Greene's attack was as serious as most of us assume. As I read it, it
seems that the "Shake-scene" stuff could be real vitriol, or it could be
more like Ben Jonson's mocking of Shakespeare in various writings-- a
good friend, fellow professional, and sometime competitor giving someone
he knew a bad time. Of course, there's no real way of knowing, it is
just a reading that reflects my personal experience of how theatrical
types relate in the present day.
--Jeremy Forbing
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rose Frankfort <
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Date: Tuesday, 15 May 2007 20:42:11 -0400
Subject: 18.0338 Upstart Crow
Comment: Re: SHK 18.0338 Upstart Crow
Does anyone know who first came to the conclusion that the "upstart
crow" was Shakespeare? I can't find any contemporary references. The
first reference I have is around the 1770's by Tyrwhitt and Malone.
Rose Frankfort
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