The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 20.0374 Tuesday, 14 July 2009
[1] From: Al Magary <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 12:44:02 -0700
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
[2] From: Ron Severdia <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 13:10:59 -0700
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
[3] From: John E. Perry <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 22:34:28 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
[4] From: Hardy M. Cook <
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Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Subj: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Al Magary <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 12:44:02 -0700
Subject: 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
IINM [if I'm not mistaken -- an abbreviation I just invented] the world
of communications hasn't known any stability since the development of
telegraphy. It is constantly producing both novelties for the easily
amused and revolutionary forms -- sometimes in combination (think
Twitter in Tehran).
Hardy now has more time to devote to SHAKSPER, and that devotion tells
in the increased volume and, I think, quality of posts and threads. But
the tech aspects, especially nonsensical ones like ISP blocking and
server crashes, are taking too much of Hardy's time. What to do?
Migrate SHAKSPER to a more modern format. One time only it will probably
be a bear (from which there is no exiting) but it can be one time only.
Blogging is established. Social networks are established. A congenial
format for SHAKSPER can be found, and Shakespeare too can both exist and
thrive in the cloud.
Let's do it.
To start with, Hardy can establish a forum at, say, Google's Blogspot to
explore and discuss and test the many opportunities. Setting up a blog
takes but a few minutes. The blog can be limited to SHAKSPER subscribers
and invited guests. It need have no mention of Shakespeare or any play,
for that is still the mission of the SHAKSPER listserv.
Let us begin.
Cheers,
Al Magary
[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ron Severdia <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 13:10:59 -0700
Subject: 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Thanks for your response, Hardy. I respect your decisions and can
empathize with your 20-year connection to the list. You've had a clear
vision and have followed it every step of the way.
However, changing from listserv to something else doesn't mean you have
to lose control over the look or content posted. In fact, I'd say
(depending on the choice) you'd gain some control and things that would
make your life easier. It also doesn't mean that you need to
disassociate SHAKSPER from yourself. Again, depending on the choice, you
may actually be even more acknowledged or known. I know it's difficult
to break out of a 20-year habit from one day to the next and, in my
experience, when it becomes necessity to act on something it's usually late.
I don't say these things because I just want to criticize you or what
you've done. In fact, quite the opposite. I'd like to see things
improve. If you don't currently use Google Groups, I'd recommend you
check it out in depth (especially the email portions). I'm not
necessarily suggesting that's the solution for you, but it will give you
an idea of what can be done.
Cheers,
Ron
[Editor's Note: "I don't say these things because I just want to
criticize you or what you've done." I understand completely and I
respect your writing to express your ideas about ways that SHAKSPER can
be improved. MORE BELOW. -Hardy]
[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: John E. Perry <
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Date: Monday, 13 Jul 2009 22:34:28 -0400
Subject: 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Ron Severdia writes,
>The days of listserv are numbered. The social networks are only one
>element of many that has already replaced it. The others are discussion
>groups and forums like Google Groups and Yahoo Groups, which allow for
>online discussion as well as the same email exchanges listserv provides
>(not to mention any modern forum software will do the same, allowing
>users to subscribe to specific topics of interest). Users are demanding
>more and more that their preferred content be served up when, where, and
>primarily HOW they want it. ...
But, Ron, listserv is exactly how I want it. I'm subscribed to a couple
of fora, and I rarely sign in to them, because they're so much extra
trouble for _me_.
Newsgroups are more freewheeling lists, and have corresponding defects.
If they are moderated, the moderator manages the spam and intrusions
of all sorts, just as Hardy manages all this for us. If they're not,
spam and a few inconsiderate clods can ruin them (example:
sci.electronics.design, which is now worthless for its nominal purpose).
As for banning, some newsgroups are also banned. That's not a defect of
lists, but of inappropriately configured filter software. And as for
filtering, I can't comment on the Microsoft stuff since I've used linux
for decades, and Thunderbird for years, but all the mail clients I'm
familiar with allow me to filter mail messages based on almost any
criteria I choose.
A particular advantage of lists is that the moderator can format
digests, so I can see what I want to see (let's leave aside for the
moment that I actually look at nearly every message -- thanks, Hardy,
for a stellar job) in related groups, in one inclusive message. Many
list servers will automatically generate digests, and limited formatting
is available based on the moderator's configuration selections. I'm not
aware of any forum that features email digests, or user-configured
filtering. Granted, I not aware of any fora that are banned, but it's
quite possible.
I like very much having one place (my mail client) to come to and read
my personal mail, my professional mail, and my hobby and other interest
mail. Having to log into a bunch of fora is a hassle I don't want to put
up with, and it takes a truly pressing interest (along with a lack of
other means of community communication) to induce me to put up with it.
I look at blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and all such the same way.
>Those who have their proverbial heads in the sand should consider
>embracing change as an evolution and progress, rather than an
>inconvenience.
Change can be good. Change can be bad. Bad change can be fixed
(usually). Good change can be ruined (and often is). We all decide what
we want and how we want to get to it. I echo wholeheartedly Hardy's
statement that "those who are interested in the features that Ron has to
offer will register at PlayShakespeare.com just as those who are
interested in discussing the "authorship question" can do so somewhere
else." I won't be among them.
[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hardy M. Cook <
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Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009
Subject: FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Comment: SHK 20.0370 FYI -- The Future of listserv Technology
Many points have been brought up in today's posts and in private ones I
have received. I was preparing to address these points individually, but
I realized that they was no need for me to be defensive and verbose. So
let me give less comprehensive responses to some of these issues, both
pro and con.
1. Other technologies are free
This point is an enticing one since I have been paying all of what has
been required to keep this list operating for many years, and these cost
are considerable.
[FYI: When we do set up the new site -- I am seriously considering
finally becoming a corporation (either not for profit or for profit, and
I will probably pay a lawyer to complete the paper work for me since I
have little patience for legal documents, which normally give me
migraines.) Becoming a corporation will enable me to be able to accept
donations -- I don't think that I would ever REQUIRE subscribers to pay
for the SHAKSPER services; but I have just retired, and I do not feel as
money-is-no-object generous as I once did. Having something additional
coming in to help with expenses would be nice.]
2. A number of subscribers have written to me saying they preferred
having e-mail delivery of the SHAKSPER digests than having to sign in to
an Internet site as some methods require.
3. Technological difficulties. Having my PC crash could happen to
anyone; the blocking incidents have been more infuriating to me.
4. Automatic formatting: I have worked hard establishing a look and feel
for plain text (ASCII) digests -- formatting that I hope creates for
readers a familiarity they are comfortable with -- and I have not found
an alternative I am happy with.
5. Blogging, Google Group, Social Networking, or Newsgroups: I simply
prefer my creating digests to any alternative I have found.
6. Change: I have given much thought to changing to another format, but
I have decided against doing so. Many members are perfectly happy with
current arrangement (John Perry's post was just one of many I received).
With the current arrangements, I can and do give individual attention to
member needs in ways that I have not found possible with alternatives.
7. Ron Severdia wrote, "I know it's difficult to break out of a 20-year
habit from one day to the next . . ."
Yes, I have had a life-long struggle with dependency addiction issues
and with my delusional belief in my ability to control things. I have,
as a result of my studying of eastern thought in particular Buddhist
philosophy and Taoism, recently had an epiphany in this regard,
recognizing that I have no control after all. Nevertheless, right now, I
simply have no desire to change.
Hardy M. Cook
Editor of SHAKSPER
[PS: A heads up: I am planning to attend over the next few months
several workshops, retreats, conferences, at the Omega Institute that
will blessedly take me away from all my concerns for a week or more at a
time. -HMC]
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S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook,
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The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>
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