The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 20.0302 Wednesday, 10 June 2009
[1] From: Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 19:59:07 +0100
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[2] From: Gabriel Egan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 09 Jun 2009 20:25:39 +0100
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[3] From: Charlotte Pressler <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 15:48:41 -0400
Subj: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[4] From: David Frankel <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 17:29:32 -0400
Subj: RE: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[5] From: Judy Prince <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 23:49:59 -0400
Subj: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[6] From: Hugh Grady <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Wednesday, 10 Jun 2009 10:40:49 -0400
Subj: RE: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 19:59:07 +0100
Subject: 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
>Why does Shakespeare have Theseus and Hippolyta talk about the hounds?
>
>What contribution does this discussion make to the themes of
Midsummer's Night Dream?
>
>All the best,
>Paul Swanson
It's only stuck in to set the groundlings rolling around the aisles
laughing.
Robin Hamilton
[2]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gabriel Egan <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 09 Jun 2009 20:25:39 +0100
Subject: 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Paul Swanson asks:
>Why does Shakespeare have Theseus and Hippolyta
>talk about the hounds [at the start of Act 4 of MND]?
>What contribution does this discussion make to the
>themes of Midsummer's Night Dream?
Stanley Wells argued that this exchange regarding the differing voices
of the baying dogs illustrates the theme of unity-in-diversity, a
concord or harmony that does not require sameness, "an agreement that
can include disagreement" (Penguin edition of 1967, p. 31). The stage
picture at this moment is of four sleeping lovers who were formerly at
enmity, and the exchange of Theseus and Hippolyta about the "musical
confusion" of the pack of hounds is another way of expressing the
reconciliation of the competing love interests.
Social attitudes to such things change over time. Until just a few years
ago one could witness in many parts of Britain a routine, familiar, and
healthy outdoor pursuit undertaken by young and old, aristocrat and
commoner, town-dweller and country-dweller, all coming together for a
socially-cohesive and traditional purpose. Since then a government ban
has all but brought the long-standing practice to an end. I mean, of
course, the tradition of hunt saboteuring.
Gabriel Egan
[3]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charlotte Pressler <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 15:48:41 -0400
Subject: 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: Re: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Hippolyta begins by getting in a not-very-subtle dig at Theseus, who in
the roster of Greek heroes occupied a distinctly lower place than
Hercules, her former hunting companion. Her enforced match with Theseus
may be diplomatically necessary, and as a queen, she is prepared to do
the right thing by her country, but she is hardly enthusiastic about it,
especially after she has had to listen to her future husband demand
Hermia's submission to her father's will in Act 1. So she is getting
what satisfaction she can from needling Theseus about his second-rank
status. When Theseus assures her that his "hounds are bred out of the
Spartan kind," Hippolyta, for the first time, sees a glimmer of
consolation. Athens may be an awful place for an Amazon to have to live,
but at least she can go hunting, and there's a good pack of dogs on the
premises. It's after this scene that Hippolyta begins to thaw.
Charlotte Pressler
South Florida Community College
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
[4]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Frankel <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 17:29:32 -0400
Subject: 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: RE: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
For one thing, it provides a way of presenting the development of the
relationship between Theseus and Hippolyta. Of course, there's more than
one way to play it -- they can be delighted to discover that they have a
shared passion in hunting hounds and music (one of the ties to the
themes of the play, of course -- note the many uses of the terms
concord, discord) -- or, Hippolyta can be lashing out at Theseus,
putting him down by praising another, leading Theseus to argue back that
his hounds (and, therefore he) are a match for those of Hercules.
[5]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Judy Prince <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 9 Jun 2009 23:49:59 -0400
Subject: The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Paul Swanson wonders how the 'hounds" discussion between Hippolyta and
Theseus in MND contributes to the play's themes.
The following makes sense to me, and may be helpful to Paul:
1] After the Bottom'ed interlude, Theseus directs the couples: "lovers
to bed", and in nearly the same breath: "sweet friends, to bed."
2] One assumes that he and Hippolyta will bed that night, as well --
-- a moment which I believe was intended from this lively love play's
beginning.
3] I'll call the discussion "Hound Hunt Talk", and Theseus and
Hippolyta are the talking hounds. The sexual wordplay's subtle to some,
perhaps, but I think sufficiently contexted and convincing. Theseus
begins the HHT: "We will . . . up to the mountain's top,/ And mark the
musical confusion/ Of hounds and echo in conjunction." [my underlining]
4] Hippolyta, having heard the hounds of Sparta, advances the HHT:
"Every region near/ Seemed all one mutual cry: I never heard/ So musical
a discord, such sweet thanks."
5] Theseus, whose hounds come from "the Spartan kind", compares his
hounds with other animals, and finds his hounds more deliberate and
effective: "Slower in pursuit, but matched in mouth like bells,/ Each
under each . . ."
6] MND celebrates love and sensual pleasure. It favours lovers' choices
for their mates [in contrast to arranged matches or matches not favoured
by the female], whilst at the same time showing the irony of lovers'
oft-daft choices. This play, like the playwright's other comedies,
concludes with happy matchups -- -- rather a difficult logic to manage,
one would think, given Shaksper's portrayal in MND of love's capricious
leadings. I feel, though, that the playwright wanted to illumine love's
singular strength -- -unanswerable to logic because it is not a thing of
logic. It is love, and love is love: that which cannot be confined to
definition and explanation, and is outside categorisation.
Best,
Judy
[6]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hugh Grady <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Wednesday, 10 Jun 2009 10:40:49 -0400
Subject: 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Comment: RE: SHK 20.0290 The Hounds of Theseus
Innumerable critics have assessed the lines as metadramatic or
meta-aesthetic comments on the play's heterogenous materials, numerous
plots, and interacting layers of "reality" and the problem of
unity/disunity they create. The theme comes up in several other places
as well, as in the remarks about making a concord of this discord.
-- Hugh Grady
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