2010

Titus Andronicus

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 21.0266  Wednesday, 7 July 2010

[1]  From:      Markus Marti <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
     Date:      July 6, 2010 6:02:56 PM EDT
     Subj:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus
 
[2]  From:      David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
     Date:      July 6, 2010 8:41:19 PM EDT
     Subj:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus

[3]  From:      John W Kennedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
     Date:      July 6, 2010 11:10:13 PM EDT
     Subj:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus
 
[4]  From:      Richard Waugaman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
     Date:      July 7, 2010 6:16:52 PM EDT
     Subj:      SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:         Markus Marti <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         July 6, 2010 6:02:56 PM EDT
Subject: 21.0262  Titus Andronicus
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus

To answer some of your questions, if there were any:

a) Yes. b) Yes indeed. c) Why not?

Aaron is just a poor devil. The main villain in the play is probably Titus -
- apart from everybody else, my namesake Uncle Marcus excluded.

Cheers, Markus

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:         David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         July 6, 2010 8:41:19 PM EDT
Subject: 21.0262  Titus Andronicus
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus

Seneca explains a lot, including important elements of both rhetoric and 
prosody. Member of a culture in which the esthetic and psychological appeal 
of violence was frequently invoked in the arena, and in literature not less 
magisterial than Vergil.

For what it's worth the Actors' Shakespeare Project did an inventive, 
moving, all-male production of the play in Boston a couple of years ago that 
got enthusiastic print and word-of-mouth reviews: final week pretty well 
sold out.

David Evett

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:         John W Kennedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         July 6, 2010 11:10:13 PM EDT
Subject: 21.0262  Titus Andronicus
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus

Felix de Villiers This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote,

>But we leave the play shattered by its cruelties. It cannot 
>conceivably be, as some would like to claim, a jeering take 
>off on the revenge tragedy. It simply does not read that 
>way. You can't do a satire on a woman who is raped, has her 
>arms and tongue lopped of, even if you wanted to.

Actually, I've read worse in slush. No, really. And, no, you don't want to 
know any more; trust me.

But considering the direct question, "Is 'Titus Andronicus' simply a bad 
play?" I have always answered in the negative, not only because, when well 
directed and acted, the thing does demonstrably work, but because I have 
always considered the fly-killing scene exemplary.

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:         Richard Waugaman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         July 7, 2010 6:16:52 PM EDT
Subject: Titus Andronicus
Comment:      SHK 21.0262  Titus Andronicus

One dimension of the play's 'sublime poetry' is the elevation of 
Shakespeare's language through his characteristic echoes of Sternhold and 
Hopkins' Whole Book of Psalms. In this case, Psalm 6 is echoed recurrently, 
throughout the play. The gist of the psalm could be captured as 'Vengeance 
is mine, saith the Lord.' So allusions to this psalm remind us that Titus is 
usurping God's role in trying to exact revenge. When Titus appeals to the 
tribunes to spare the lives of his sons, his echoes of Psalm 6 subtly imply 
that the tribunes can enact God's role in that psalm if they forgive Titus's 
sons. But his allusions to the psalm go on to highlight Titus's arrogance in 
failing to emulate the humility of the psalmist. In 5,2,17-42, Titus's 
exchange with the 'disguised' Tamora contains further echoes of Psalm 6. 
Titus begins making these echoes, and Tamora then follows suit with even 
more echoes; it is reminiscent of characters who adapt to another 
character's mode of address (you or thou). In terms of the question of 
Titus's sanity in this exchange, his final psalm echoes of the 7th verse of 
Psalm 6 signal to the audience that he is at least sane enough to know that 
Tamora is his 'foe.'

Richard Waugaman

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S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions 
expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes 
no responsibility for them.

Middleton and Macbeth

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 21.0265  Wednesday, 7 July 2010

From:         Bill Lloyd <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         July 6, 2010 5:25:25 PM EDT
Subject: 21.0263  Middleton and Macbeth
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0263  Middleton and Macbeth

Felix de Villiers said: "I'd be fascinated if Marina could point 
out...lapses of style or quality in[Titaus Andronicus]."

But the argument isn't that there is a "lapse" of style or quality, that one 
part is not as good as another and so can't be by Shakespeare. The argument 
is just that the verse is constructed <i>differently</i>, the imagery 
deployed <i>differently</i>. To see these differences pointed out, see Brian 
Vicker's <i>Shakespeare Co-author</i>.Vickers there cites Professor 
Tarlinskaya's data among his various arguments...

Bill Lloyd

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions 
expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes 
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Hamlet's Feminine Ending

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 21.0264  Tuesday, 6 July 2010

From:         Martin Mueller <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         June 27, 2010 6:43:11 PM EDT
Subject: 21.0256  Hamlet's Feminine Ending
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0256  Hamlet's Feminine Ending

>Shakespeare's plays, of course, manifest such duality throughout, often
>embodied as rival siblings or warring lords. I'd argue that TMP's 
>Ferdinand and Caliban represent the tamed and wild aspects of 
>Prospero's soul in his incestuous desire for his own daughter. What 
>is missing is the actual battle between knight and wodewose to rescue
>an abducted Fair Lady -- a motif so common in medieval lore. In one 
>version the Lady spurns the old knight who rescues her, preferring 
>instead a younger suitor, but pays for it in the end when she is left
>unprotected, a prey to lions, tigers, and bears (Oh my!).
>
>Joe Egert


What is the textual basis for Prospero's "incestuous desire for his own 
daughter"? Granted that he is a control freak and may not like to part from 
his daughter, it's quite a step from there to incest. We do have a father-
daughter incest motif in Pericles, and there are shades of it in The 
Winter's Tale -- much toned down from its source narrative--but where is it 
in the Tempest?


_______________________________________________________________
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Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions 
expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes 
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Updates to SHAKSPER Web Site

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 21.0265  Wednesday, 7 July 2010

From:         Hardy M. Cook <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         Wednesday, July 7, 2010      
Subject:      Updates to SHAKSPER Web Site

Yesterday, I announced that several updates and improvement to the SHAKSPER web 
site were forthcoming:

http://www.shaksper.net/archives/2010/0266.html

The first of these can be found at the site's homepage: www.shaksper.net.

The fourth item on the homepage list reads as follows:

Hardy M. Cook on "Shakespeare on the Internet": This essay is a complete 
revision of the one published in _Sh@kespeare in the Media: From the Globe 
Theatre to the World Wide Web_. [Eds. Stefani Brusberg-Kiermeier and Jorg 
Helbig. Berlin; Bern; Bruxelles; New York; Oxford; Wien: Peter Lang, 2004. 213-
241.] It was prepared for a second edition of the collection, which never 
materialized. This essay and its predecessor are the principal source of the 
list of suggested Internet sites below.

The link to this entry enables the user to download a PDF file of my essay 
"Shakespeare on the Internet" prepared for the proposed second edition of the 
above collection of essays, which unfortunately never came to fruition. 

WARNING: This essay is a detailed attempt to survey some of the Internet 
resources that were available at the time of the essay's writing. Because of the 
nature of this ambitious project, some of the information included was out-of-
date ostensibly at the time I last pressed the save key: such is the nature of 
the Internet. I finished the draft of the original essay in December of 2002, 
after researching it for over a year. The collection was published more than a 
year later. I completed the revision of the essay for the planned second edition 
of the collection in August of 2008, based upon research that was conducted ten 
months or more before. Thus, the essay is approaching two years old; however, 
because I spent so much time on it and because it contains much that I still 
consider useful, I decided to make it available over the Internet for anyone who 
wishes to read it.

I derived the links in the "Selected Guide to Shakespeare on the Internet," the 
entry that follows, from this essay. I try, approximately once a year, to go 
over the links on this list to determine if each link is still "hot" (i.e., it 
works). If it is not, I try to discover if the address has changed or if the 
site has moved, and then I correct the entry. In the instances in which the site 
has gone down, I remove the item from my list. (I welcome corrections or 
suggestions for the next iteration of this list: 
www.shaksper.net/archives/files/internet.sites.html). 

The next set of updates to the SHAKSPER web site can be found at the SBReviews 
page: www.shaksper.net/archives/files/reviews.html

Here readers may read or download PDF versions of David Richman's review of 
Margreta de Grazia's _Hamlet without Hamlet_ and-or Eric Langley's review of 
Lesel Dawson's _Lovesickness and Gender in Early Modern English Literature_, 
distributed to SHAKSPER members in July and October of 2009 respectively. Over 
the next few days, I will be distributing four additional reviews in the 
SHAKSPER Book Review Project to subscribers with PDF versions becoming available 
on this page soon afterwards.

Finally, the files of the 2008 Roundtable on "Shakespeare's Intentions" can now 
be found on the SHAKSPER Roundtable page: www.shaksper.net/roundtable/index.html

These files are organized in chronological order, reproducing the exchanges in 
this roundtable as they appeared. In addition to the links to the digests in the 
SHAKSPER archives, anyone who is interested may now download or read online a 
Listing of files in this roundtable and the complete discussion in a single 
large file; both also have links to the archived digests.

Soon, I will be announcing information about purchasing the special edition of 
the journal _STYLE_ derived from this roundtable, an exciting collaboration 
between _STYLE_ and SHAKSPER, guest edited by Professor Cary DiPietro of the 
University of Toronto at Mississauga; in addition, I will be providing a link to 
a longer version of essay that I contributed to this volume.

Eric Luhrs, SHAKSPER's webmaster, has mounted these files and updated these 
pages in preparation for our completely redesigning the SHAKSPER web site: more 
information about this project will be forthcoming. 

Best wishes, 
Hardy M. Cook 
Editor of SHAKSPER <www.shaksper.net>   
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (SHAKSPER) 

 
_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions 
expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no 
responsibility for them.

Middleton and Macbeth

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 21.0263  Tuesday, 6 July 2010

From:         Felix de Villiers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date:         June 28, 2010 3:46:52 AM EDT
Subject: 21.0255  Middleton and Macbeth
Comment:      Re: SHK 21.0255  Middleton and Macbeth

Marina Tarlinskaya quoted these words:

Professor Gasparov once said, "Intuition needs to be earned."

I couldn't agree more. I have a pretty good intuitive ear in music. People 
put me to the test in all kinds of ways. They will put on a piece; I'll say 
I don't know it at all, but it could be early Wagner. It is, and I didn't 
know early Wagner I can turn on the radio and hear a hitherto unknown work 
and know that it is by Clara Schumann, because I know her musical language. 
I know that a Cello Concerto that passes under the name of Haydn is not by 
him. I don't have to do any special studies or tests, I simply know his 
idiosyncrasies. This knowledge comes more from love of music than from 
analysis, though I do this as well, but never coldly. When you are 'in 
love', you look at every detail. I can't pretend to have as sensitive an ear 
for poetry. I'm still working on Titus. I'd be fascinated if Marina could 
point out changes, lapses of style or quality in the play. But maybe not on 
this thread. When I went back to reading Shakespeare a few years ago, I 
found that I was carried as by one lyrical current from beginning to end of 
certain plays, mostly earlier plays, Richard II or Titus. I'm not going to 
waste two seconds of my time worrying about who else might have contributed 
to Macbeth, partly because I got sick of the obsessive to and fro-ing 
arguments, in which people are more interested in 'proving' and rebutting, 
and lose sight altogether of the plays themselves. One man only is 
responsible for the greatness of Macbeth.

Enjoy the plays,
Felix


_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions 
expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes 
no responsibility for them.

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