The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.2206 Wednesday, 6 November 2002
[1] From: Claude Caspar <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 10:39:48 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[2] From: John D. Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 10:54:44 -0500
Subj: T. Jenkins' diary
[3] From: William Proctor Williams <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 05 Nov 2002 11:46:44 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[4] From: Bob Grumman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 12:14:51 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[5] From: David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 16:51:01 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[6] From: Takashi Kozuka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 23:36:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subj: Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[7] From: Geralyn Horton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 23:03:31 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
[8] From: Tom Reedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Wednesday, 6 Nov 2002 1:22:29 -0600
Subj: Re: Recent discovery of T. Jenkins' diary (Titus Andronicus
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Claude Caspar <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 10:39:48 -0500
Subject: 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Comment: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
>James: Shakespeare, I need a powerful play.
>
>Will: I'll begin now. However, tragedy to you is a blaze of words and
>deeds quenched by blood lust. I know there is much more to a great
>tragedy that I'll show in the draft of this play.
Not even a good pastiche. That it is "translated" at all gives it away.
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: John D. Cox <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 10:54:44 -0500
Subject: T. Jenkins' diary
With all due respect to Alexander Huang, he owes the listserv some
explanations. Why is he a teaching fellow at Harvard with an e-mail
address at Stanford? Did his student discover the diary in the Bodleian
while at Harvard? How did that work? What level is the student? How
hard has he pressed the student about the source of the material? The
claim appears to be so patently false that Mr. Huang would do well to
find out from the student where the material came from before posting it
on SHAKSPER. This has every appearance of a clumsy hoax.
John Cox
Hope College
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: William Proctor Williams <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 05 Nov 2002 11:46:44 -0500
Subject: 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Comment: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Items in Bodley have shelfmarks. I don't recall that anyone has offered
this so far. If this discovery exists then it must exist with a
shelfmark. What is it?
William Proctor Williams
[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Grumman <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 12:14:51 -0500
Subject: 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Comment: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
>Here is part of the translation:
I really don't see how anyone in his right mind could take this
"translation" seriously. It doesn't sound authentic, to understate (to
the power of ten). These guys would not have talked like that, would
have said more interesting things, not repeated themselves, not sounded
like characters in a historical romance written by a bright
fourteen-year-old, etc.
--Bob G.
[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Evett <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 16:51:01 -0500
Subject: 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Comment: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
For what it's worth, the first five pages of returns for a Google search
for "T. Jenkins" and "diary" produced nothing apparently relevant to
this purported find. Has anybody queried the Bodleian staff?
Dave
[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Takashi Kozuka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 23:36:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
>If the story is genuine, would someone please
>identify where it was first published?
I agree. Since one of Alexander's students is submitting his/her
translation "as an assignment", this student should be able to provide
the original Latin text he/she used and *must* tell in her essay (or
reference) where she found the Latin text. Since (according to
Alexander's recent post) he/she hasn't, I believe it's reasonable for
Alexander (or any reader of the essay) to ask the student to provide the
information.
Best wishes,
Takashi Kozuka
[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Geralyn Horton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Tuesday, 5 Nov 2002 23:03:31 -0500
Subject: 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
Comment: Re: SHK 13.2196 Re: Recent Discovery of T. Jenkins' Diary
If tomorrow I was informed of the discovery of a diary revealing that
Titus A had been written because somebody connected to the theatre had
discovered a really effective way to stage amputations and mutilations,
THAT I could believe. But it is beyond belief that Shakespeare-- or any
actual human being-- ever took part in such a conversation. The only
creatures who talk like this are characters in the works of bad writers
who haven't learned how to handle exposition. It's stuffed with people
telling each other things that they know the other already knows-- it's
dead fake.
I've been reading and listening to the first drafts beginner's plays
for thirty years, which I suspect may make me in a modest way an expert
on this particular sort of hubristic clumsiness-- journeymen who
imitate humanity so abominably.
Whether it's a recent fake (my hunch) or an Elizabethan fake, my small
Latin would not qualify me to judge.
[8]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tom Reedy <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Wednesday, 6 Nov 2002 1:22:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Recent discovery of T. Jenkins' diary (Titus Andronicus)
<snip>
>We only know that it is claimed to have been discovered
>in the Bodleian Library (Oxford).
<snip>
I appreciate a good hoax and I've perpetrated a few myself, but this one
is so clumsy I can't believe anyone is taking it seriously.
Tom Reedy
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