September
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1804 Wednesday, 17 September 2003 [1] From: Frank Whigham <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 09:29:25 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery [2] From: John Briggs <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 15:48:09 +0100 Subj: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery [3] From: Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 16:32:38 +0100 Subj: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Whigham <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 09:29:25 -0500 Subject: 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Comment: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery For a very striking historical/anthropological treatment of the history and development of such laws as are here being discussed (what leads the church to shape its incest laws as it does? how did the reformation change this? etc.), see Goody, Jack. The Development of the Family and Marriage in Europe. 1983. Frank Whigham [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Briggs <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 15:48:09 +0100 Subject: 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Comment: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery Robin Hamilton wrote: >I take Common Law -- defined by tradition and precedent -- to be a >sub-set of Civil Law, which would include both Common Law and Statute >Law. If I'm wrong here, I'm sure someone will stand up to correct me. You're wrong :-) Civil Law has at least three different senses, all of which seem to differ from that given above, so the term is perhaps best avoided. 1. The commonest usage, although possibly the least accurate, contrasts Civil with Criminal Law. As such, it would certainly involve both Common and Statute Law, but so also does Criminal Law. Public Law is said to be the preferred term, although I don't recollect ever seeing that. 2. The most accurate usage equates Civil Law with Roman Law (or at least systems based on it) as opposed to Common Law (cf. Droit Civil). 3. Civil Law is sometimes used as a synonym for National - as opposed to International - Law. Whatever it is, it isn't Equity - and don't mention Canon Law, either. John Briggs [3]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robin Hamilton <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 16:32:38 +0100 Subject: 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Comment: Re: SHK 14.1794 "My crown ... and my queen" - Gertrude's Adultery If the pertinency of Deuteronomy was so manifest in Tudor England (as has been argued), how come marriage to a deceased brother's wife was illegal in that place and at that time? Why did Henry VIII have to have his dead brother's marriage annulled in the first place before he could marry Catherine? Impressed as I am by the scholarly citation of the Leviticus/Deutoronomy texts, I think that this is essentially a marginal issue. I'd be even more impressed if the KJV, not published till 1611 and thus too late to provide material for either Henry's divorce or the writing of /Hamlet/, wasn't cited by default. "Which Bible?" isn't exactly a transparent issue, either with regard to the period between 1450 and 1611 generally, or Shakespeare in particular. Robin Hamilton. _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1803 Wednesday, 17 September 2003 From: Stuart Manger <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 11:42:43 +0100 Subject: 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 Comment: Re: SHK 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 How does it compare with the all-female Shrew at The Globe? _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1802 Wednesday, 17 September 2003 From: Clifford Stetner <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 10:06:13 -0400 Subject: 14.1799 Determined to Be a Villain Comment: Re: SHK 14.1799 Determined to Be a Villain >A late note for this thread. I was watching Ian McKellen in Richard III >last night. When he said he was determined to be a villain, well, he >persuaded me of his single-minded resolve. I can't imagine how he could >mean the fault was in his stars. > >Al Magary After trying to follow various of Terence Hawkes' arguments in other contexts, I'm prepared to state that neither nurture nor nature can have "determined" Richard to be a villain, as he is only words on paper. If the ambiguity of the passive verb "determine" is read as including determinism as well as the existentialism played by Ian McKellen, then Richard was determined to be a villain by Thomas More, Hall, and Holinshed, who turned the character into a Machiavel. If anyone has pointed it out in this thread, I missed it, but the soliloquy really continues the one in 3 Henry VI 3.2: . . . . Well, say there is no kingdom then for Richard; What other pleasure can the world afford? I'll make my heaven in a lady's lap, And deck my body in gay ornaments, And witch sweet ladies with my words and looks. O miserable thought! and more unlikely Than to accomplish twenty golden crowns! Why, love forswore me in my mother's womb: And, for I should not deal in her soft laws, She did corrupt frail nature with some bribe, To shrink mine arm up like a wither'd shrub; To make an envious mountain on my back, Where sits deformity to mock my body; To shape my legs of an unequal size; To disproportion me in every part, Like to a chaos, or an unlick'd bear-whelp That carries no impression like the dam. And am I then a man to be beloved? O monstrous fault, to harbour such a thought! Then, since this earth affords no joy to me, But to command, to cheque, to o'erbear such As are of better person than myself, I'll make my heaven to dream upon the crown, And, whiles I live, to account this world but hell, Until my mis-shaped trunk that bears this head Be round impaled with a glorious crown. And yet I know not how to get the crown, For many lives stand between me and home: And I,--like one lost in a thorny wood, That rends the thorns and is rent with the thorns, Seeking a way and straying from the way; Not knowing how to find the open air, But toiling desperately to find it out,-- Torment myself to catch the English crown: And from that torment I will free myself, Or hew my way out with a bloody axe. Why, I can smile, and murder whiles I smile, And cry 'Content' to that which grieves my heart, And wet my cheeks with artificial tears, And frame my face to all occasions. I'll drown more sailors than the mermaid shall; I'll slay more gazers than the basilisk; I'll play the orator as well as Nestor, Deceive more slily than Ulysses could, And, like a Sinon, take another Troy. I can add colours to the chameleon, Change shapes with Proteus for advantages, And set the murderous Machiavel to school. Can I do this, and cannot get a crown? Tut, were it farther off, I'll pluck it down. [Exit] I think the active voice in: "I'll make my heaven to dream upon the crown" not the passive "my heaven is made to dream upon the crown" puts the "determined" completely on the existentialist side. Henry VI is, of course, the later play. Did Shakespeare perhaps note his earlier ambiguity and write these lines to remove it? (It would be interesting to know, incidentally, why "to be determined" and "to be resolved" are used as passive verbs when "to determine" and "to resolve" are available.) In Henry VI, Richard is determined by nature to by ugly; to think himself worthy nevertheless of being loved seems to him hubris, but it is he who determines therefore to "torment myself to catch the English crown" or "hew my way out with a bloody axe." The image of the bear cub turns an old myth that bears are born shapeless until their mothers lick their bear form into them (truly "to be resolved" in its passive sense) into a metaphor for existentialist self-fashioning. Witness Whitney's Choice of Emblems 92: . . . . Even so, the man on whome dothe Nature froune, Whereby, he lives despis'd of everie wighte, Industrie yet, maie bringe him to renoume, And diligence, maie make the crooked righte: Then have no doubt, for arte maie nature helpe. Thinke howe the beare doth forme her uglye whelpe. p.s. There is more to deconstruction than ambiguity, but Derrida should have been a poet and not a philosopher. Clifford Stetner CUNY http://phoenixandturtle.net _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1801 Wednesday, 17 September 2003 [1] From: Jeffrey Myers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 08:38:28 -0400 Subj: RE: SHK 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 [2] From: D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 09:35:57 -0500 Subj: Re: SHK 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffrey Myers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 08:38:28 -0400 Subject: 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 Comment: RE: SHK 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 Yes, I did mean Stratford, Ontario. Sorry about the confusion. Jeff Myers [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: D Bloom <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Tuesday, 16 Sep 2003 09:35:57 -0500 Subject: 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 Comment: Re: SHK 14.1793 Stratford Festival 2004 Graham Hall, our hinterlands correspondent, reports the following of geographical and poetical (perhaps doggerellicine) interest, to wit: >as the motorway signs proclaim - "Historic Warwick" Thus bureaucracy anticipates satire. I tried to think of some other apt county appellations but couldn't come up with anything offhand except dull offerings like Worcester Booster, Surrey Hurry and (God save the mark!) York Pork -- none of which have either the ring or the applicability of Historic Warwick. Since only that locale (and London) would relate to the subject of this list, I invite members to write me off-list with ideas of their own. Maximum points for having the rhyming word before the country. Separate categories (of course) for counties in Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Standard abbreviations (like Hants, Herts, etc) are perfectly acceptable The winner gets an automatic nomination for the coveted Hernshaw Award. Cheers, don _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 14.1800 Tuesday, 16 September 2003 [1] From: David Lindley <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 12:15:21 GMT0BST Subj: Re: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) [2] From: Kathy Dent <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 15:03:44 +0100 Subj: Re: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) [3] From: John Drakakis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 15:23:14 +0100 Subj: RE: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) [1]----------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Lindley <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 12:15:21 GMT0BST Subject: 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) Comment: Re: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) >>should we all spend a >>moment considering at what cost to the global environment the Americans >>are keeping themselves cool? (Energy, air-conditioning, global >>warming... make the connections!) > >I find it interesting that the solution to the "problem of abundance" >which is usually offered by the disenchanted is to take away the >abundance, not make it better. Are they really "progressive" as they >claim, or reactionary Luddites? Hmm - 'disenchanted' is a wonderfully weaselly term in this context - but, to bring this back to Shakespeare, doesn't Lear have something to say about what the rich should do with their 'superflux'? David Lindley [2]------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy Dent <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 15:03:44 +0100 Subject: 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) Comment: Re: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) >I find it interesting that the solution to the "problem of abundance" >which is usually offered by the disenchanted is to take away the >abundance, not make it better. Are they really "progressive" as they >claim, or reactionary Luddites? No problem with abundance, Larry, only with excess, inequality and injustice. Check out the World Trade negotiations! (And, yes, as a European, I hang my head in shame at our treatment of the developing world). Kathy Dent [3]------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Drakakis <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. > Date: Monday, 15 Sep 2003 15:23:14 +0100 Subject: 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) Comment: RE: SHK 14.1787 Re: Tillyard (Again) What has all this to do with Tillyard, or with Shakespeare? Surely the time has come to continue this 'strand' of the discussion privately. Cheers, John Drakakis [Editor's Note: I agree. -Hardy] _______________________________________________________________ S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List Hardy M. Cook,This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net> DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the editor assumes no responsibility for them.