The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 16.1919 Monday, 21 November 2005
[1] From: HR Greenberg <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 19 Nov 2005 15:26:31 EST
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1903 "Translated and Improved"
[2] From: David Basch <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 19 Nov 2005 18:35:45 -0500
Subj: Re: SHK 16.1910 "Translated and Improved"
[3] From: Florence Amit <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Sunday, 20 Nov 2005 09:40:14 +0200
Subj: Translated and Improved
[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: HR Greenberg <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 19 Nov 2005 15:26:31 EST
Subject: 16.1903 "Translated and Improved"
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1903 "Translated and Improved"
It is by no means received truth that the hapless Dr. Lopez was any sort
of conspirator. Setting aside a great deal of information about his
innocence, just before his excruciating death, with no possibility of
reprieve, he nevertheless maintained his innocence, and expressed his
absolute devotion to Elizabeth. He may indeed have been a Maranno, but
that is another matter..... HR Greenberg
[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Basch <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Saturday, 19 Nov 2005 18:35:45 -0500
Subject: 16.1910 "Translated and Improved"
Comment: Re: SHK 16.1910 "Translated and Improved"
Peter Bridgeman raised a question about the heinous nature of interest
in that a Gospel parable seems to treat interest as neutral and even
praiseworthy in the event mentioned. Peter wrote:
>Where is the prohibition in the Bible? I ask because last Sunday's
>gospel, the 'parable of the talents', seems to condone the practice ...
>
>"His master answered him, "You wicked and lazy servant! ... you should
>have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my return I would
>have recovered my capital with interest"." (Matt. 25: 26-27).
Norman Hinton then answers the question by noting the Hebrew Bible
verses that forbid charging interest to a "brother." He lists the
following scriptures:
>Among other places:
>Exodus 22:25; Levticus 25:36; Leviticus 25:37; Deuteronomy 23:19;
>Nehemiah 5:10; Psalm 15:5; Ezekiel 18:8-14; Ezekiel 22:12
>
>This does not include the verse that says you can charge interest to
>'foreigners'.
The parable seems an indication of a recognition in the New Testament of
the Jewish oral law, which later was written down as the Talmud. In the
oral law/Talmud, relief and encouragement was given to a lender to lend
to his "brother" through the legal device that was called a SooDaR,
which was a form of partnership, a solution to the practical problem of
people unwilling to give loans. In this device, the lender became a
partner of the borrower. Thus, when the borrower later increased his
wealth as a result of having the borrowed money, he paid back the loan
and a portion of his gains to the partner-lender. Hence the parable
would have made sense and been thoroughly understood by those living in
Judea at the time.
Apparently, since that time, Christians were not conversant with the
Talmud and would not have known about the legal device of this borrowing
partnership and did not formulate such a practical system for their own
use, sticking literally to the Hebrew Bible law. Hence there was the
need for Jewish lenders like Shylock who were not obligated to render
interest free loans to non co-religionists.
That Shylock gave Antonio a free loan is one of the many indications
that Antonio was a Jewish convert to Christianity. Some of the other
indications are Shylock's use of the word "OUR" in talking to Antonio:
"OUR father Abram," Sufferance is the badge of all OUR tribe, etc. This
issue is important because it explains the "merry jest," which was a
reference to a Talmudic law of the "half payment" penalty that the owner
of an ox that gored had to pay the owner of the gored ox. The money came
"from the flesh," of the ox that gored which was sold and the money
equally shared that was taken "from his flesh." The technical term for
this in Hebrew is "me'guf'o," literally meaning, "from his flesh," and
was understood as "half payment." In the play, Antonio obviously
understands the joke and is not bothered by it and the scene could be
played in a fashion that would suggest Antonio's recognition.
David Basch
[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Florence Amit <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Date: Sunday, 20 Nov 2005 09:40:14 +0200
Subject: Translated and Improved
I wish to thank David Basch for graciously sending me copies of his
postings. In this case it allows me to readily contest some of his
arguments about Antonio's supposed conversion to Judaism.
Although some of his observations are very interesting his two counts of
evidence are flimsy indeed. He states "that Shylock gave Antonio a free
loan" - it being a privilege for a fellow Jew. Shylock's so called "free
loan" has a most heinous stipulation - a pound of flesh. No one can
interpret that as being close to anything that the Talmud stipulated, a
sign of brotherhood or indeed free. Neither Jew nor non- Jew would
accept such a perverse ruling as anything benevolent. The play occupies
itself conspicuously with the reason for this perversity. Most people
say that it is because of revenge. (Why revenge against Antonio when it
was Christian institutions that were making hardships for the Jews.
True, Antonio has an agenda and says harsh words but hardly worse than
most Gentiles at that time. )
My argument is that Shylock's stipulation is part of the "bait to catch
a fish with all ". It will allow Shylock to have a court ruling, even
though it would be against his own person, when ordinarily he would have
no recourse but to know that after his death, his property would be
confiscated by bureaucrats.
David goes on to interestingly mention the Talmudic "flesh of an ox
etc". This seems to me an instrument of Shakespeare and not of his
character. He would have found such ideas amusing and made them
pertinent to Shylock's imagery. As I have indicated long ago for
"shaksper" regarding the final arrangements of transfer, Shakespeare
evidently studied Jewish law quite well in preparation for his play.
Then David mentions Shylock's use of the word "OUR" in talking to
Antonio: "OUR father Abram," Sufferance is the badge of all OUR tribe, etc."
Well this is a weak argument indeed. The first person plural here simply
means the collective to which the speaker belongs - here the community
of Jews. To include Antonio or anyone else that could be represented by
the singular "you" shows an exceptional degree of conformity or
continuing intimacy that ordinarily is not sustained. It would be right
if both parties were listening to rites at a grave side or together
attended the same lecturer.
On the other hand we have the weekly reading from the Torah "Ha yotzeh"
- the "leave-taking" of Jacob from Laban which Shylock mentions to
Antonio at length so as to put him into the secret of his justifiable
deception. Speaking from experience, even a non- religious Jew would
understand the essence of this lesson - but not Antonio. He asks, " was
this inserted to make interest good / Or is your gold and silver ewes
and rams?"
Although a business man himself, hypocritically he cannot forego
applying his official ideology and attacks Shylock for taking
recompense when leasing what is his own, his money. To tie this to
the reading requires some effort. Antonio further says that "The devil
can cite scripture for his purpose." (I, iii ,90) Here one asks, of the
two whose purpose is devilish? Is this David's convert?
Indeed the only time when conversion becomes an issue is when Antonio
suggests it to the Duke, The convert to Christianity is to be Shylock.
This ensues after a changed Antonio has made sure that Jessica will
inherit something from her father. I believe that he appeases the Duke
with a dying candidate. Who had the authority to enforce conversion?
Antonio might have, if he had been made the civil representative of the
Inquisition in Venice. His sponsorship of Bassanio, his early civility
to Lorenzo and Graziano and his previous antipathy to Shylock suggests a
more involved Christian than the ordinary.
Be that as it may, I cannot agree that Antonio in any way or style seems
like a convert to Judaism.
Probably it is useless for me to further oppose your partiality, David.
I will not. By now you know my opinion.
Florence
_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>
DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the
editor assumes no responsibility for them.